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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2021, 10:06 
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My money says he pulls the wings and puts it in a container and trucks it to California, the same way he moved it to Georgia.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2021, 11:04 
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Is here any reason that this prototype needs to go to California? Would it really be of much use in developing the next prototype or a production model.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2021, 14:16 
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Username Protected wrote:
Is here any reason that this prototype needs to go to California?

Ripley's Believe It or Not museum would take it.

It will go in the "Not" section.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2021, 15:20 
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Username Protected wrote:
Is here any reason that this prototype needs to go to California?

Ripley's Believe It or Not museum would take it.

It will go in the "Not" section.


No need to go all the way to California for that. There's one in Panama City Beach and one in St. Augustine. Only about a 2 hour drive.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2021, 15:26 
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Username Protected wrote:
Is here any reason that this prototype needs to go to California? Would it really be of much use in developing the next prototype or a production model.

I can't think of any, but I'm sure Peter has a plan :scratch:

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2021, 15:36 
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I am neutral on the project, just a curiosity to me,
Peter may be bullheaded, but not an idiot.
He got it in the air multiple times and i am sure he has solutions to many if not most of the problems. He put patches on patches to keep it flying. Version 2 should sort most of it out.
He has been pretty thick skinned through it all. I would never have given this forum a shot at continued ridicule. You have to give him credit for that.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2021, 15:42 
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So to those that have followed the project more closely than I, even assuming he magically put the plane on a diet and worked through the laundry list of other issues (which seems impossible), this plane is still never going to be more than an anemic velocity with pressurization, is that right?

If so, the need for pressurization would be negated by the slow climb rate to get high enough where it would matter. Could he remove the pressurization and just make it a slower, roomier velocity? I can see that maybe selling a few, again assuming he can work through all of the issues. Trying to figure out if a Mike Patey took over the project, would he just look at it and start over, or would he change it? That is, does the work done so far have any value, or was it just dead from the beginning because the concept is just so flawed it was a fools errand?


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2021, 15:48 
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Rocky

I agree.


It looks like the plane is a dog of an airplane, but I can't help but admire Peter a bit. I'm building a little simple EAB from a kit. It's a metric crap-ton of work and it's nothing compared to the effort Peter has put into the Raptor.

I feel pretty bad for the guy. Wish he'd put all that energy and zeal into a better platform.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2021, 16:11 
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Username Protected wrote:
So to those that have followed the project more closely than I, even assuming he magically put the plane on a diet and worked through the laundry list of other issues (which seems impossible), this plane is still never going to be more than an anemic velocity with pressurization, is that right?

If so, the need for pressurization would be negated by the slow climb rate to get high enough where it would matter. Could he remove the pressurization and just make it a slower, roomier velocity? I can see that maybe selling a few, again assuming he can work through all of the issues. Trying to figure out if a Mike Patey took over the project, would he just look at it and start over, or would he change it? That is, does the work done so far have any value, or was it just dead from the beginning because the concept is just so flawed it was a fools errand?


It doesn’t currently have pressurization to remove.

If someone like Mike Patey took over the project, the airframe would be stiffer where needed and much lighter overall, and he would bolt on a more powerful and proven engine, likely a turbine. The end result would do some things quite well, but it would still be miles away from a viable kit with a set of instructions that an amateur builder could use to duplicate it.

Do not underestimate how much work there is to go from a prototype to a buildable kit, and from a kit to a well documented kit with quality instructions.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2021, 16:25 
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Username Protected wrote:
It doesn’t currently have pressurization to remove.

If someone like Mike Patey took over the project, the airframe would be stiffer where needed and much lighter overall, and he would bolt on a more powerful and proven engine, likely a turbine. The end result would do some things quite well, but it would still be miles away from a viable kit with a set of instructions that an amateur builder could use to duplicate it.

Do not underestimate how much work there is to go from a prototype to a buildable kit, and from a kit to a well documented kit with quality instructions.


I think Mark will have spent more time on his cowling than Peter spent on his engine, excluding trips to the Home Depot HVAC section.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2021, 17:03 
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Can you really "fix" a weight problem this big? Let's say yes for a minute.

How's the pressurization going. It never went anywhere.

How's the engine doing? Which one? Oh, you mean the second [used] engine. Well it has 17 radiators and coolers and 2.3 miles of hose, and it does fine if you stay under 70% power.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2021, 17:23 
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Username Protected wrote:
Is here any reason that this prototype needs to go to California? Would it really be of much use in developing the next prototype or a production model.

I can't think of any, but I'm sure Peter has a plan :scratch:

It is conceivable that delivering the prototype to CA was part of whatever deal he made with the production team. Or not.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2021, 17:34 
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Username Protected wrote:
I am neutral on the project, just a curiosity to me,
Peter may be bullheaded, but not an idiot.
He got it in the air multiple times and i am sure he has solutions to many if not most of the problems. He put patches on patches to keep it flying. Version 2 should sort most of it out.
He has been pretty thick skinned through it all. I would never have given this forum a shot at continued ridicule. You have to give him credit for that.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.....


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2021, 17:57 
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Joined: 01/18/11
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Location: Lakeland , Ga
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Username Protected wrote:
Can you really "fix" a weight problem this big? Let's say yes for a minute.

How's the pressurization going. It never went anywhere.

How's the engine doing? Which one? Oh, you mean the second [used] engine. Well it has 17 radiators and coolers and 2.3 miles of hose, and it does fine if you stay under 70% power.

One well done radiator can handle a lot of horses with drag.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meredith_effect


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2021, 19:56 
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Joined: 10/07/18
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Location: Columbus, Ohio
Aircraft: Baron 58, Lear 35
Username Protected wrote:
So to those that have followed the project more closely than I, even assuming he magically put the plane on a diet and worked through the laundry list of other issues (which seems impossible), this plane is still never going to be more than an anemic velocity with pressurization, is that right?

Since Peter’s magic wand is on back order, we can forget about the weight problem being cured with anything short of a completely new airframe.
The pressurization maybe could be made to work with a lot of design changes.
The present case of anemia is attributable directly to Pete’s unwillingness to even contemplate the advice of people well versed in areas of which PM has zero experience. The Audi diesel was never going to be a transformative GA powerplant, but people with knowledge and experience setting up compound turbos, on automotive engines, to power aircraft, told PM years ago that his design would result in low power output accompanied by prodigious heat generation. If he had used the time spent on his Rube Goldberg cooling system to intelligently rework the turbos, the performance would be considerably less anemic and the engine wouldn’t be ready to melt after 2 minutes at full power.


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