20 Apr 2024, 03:09 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
|
Username Protected |
Message |
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 20 May 2020, 01:03 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 02/25/16 Posts: 287 Post Likes: +170 Location: Tupelo, MS
Aircraft: 182R
|
|
I talked to Elliott about it... He seems to think it will do ok. I hope it does for Elliott and Justin's sake.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 20 May 2020, 04:32 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 11/03/08 Posts: 14568 Post Likes: +22936 Location: Peachtree City GA / Stoke-On-Trent UK
Aircraft: A33
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Um............. I’ll fly the photo ship/chase plane photo car/motorcycle
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 20 May 2020, 05:52 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 02/28/17 Posts: 1213 Post Likes: +1191 Location: Panama City, FL
Aircraft: Velocity XL-RG
|
|
I'm guessing that this thing will be similar to a Velocity with regards to opening a door in flight. Meaning that once it is unlatched, there will be NO problem opening it. Maintaining control of the aircraft will be the challenge, assuming the door stays attached and doesn't go through the prop.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 20 May 2020, 09:34 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 04/26/13 Posts: 19915 Post Likes: +19643 Location: Columbus , IN (KBAK)
Aircraft: 1968 Baron D55
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Hmmm. He forecasts Vr as 97 mph, and max ROC of 1400 fpm. But the ROC graph also shows a positive climb rate down to 40 mph, and 200 fpm at 50. I'm having trouble reconciling that; if it needs 97 mph to generate enough lift to fly, how can it have excess lift to climb at 40-50 mph? Perhaps the higher speed is necessary to provide the canard with enough authority to get the nose off the ground, after which the main wing begins producing lift. That would allow it to continue flight and climb at a lower speed than rotation. Don, what is it like on the Velocity?
_________________ My last name rhymes with 'geese'.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 20 May 2020, 10:44 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 12/10/07 Posts: 30704 Post Likes: +10721 Location: Minneapolis, MN (KFCM)
Aircraft: 1970 Baron B55
|
|
Username Protected wrote: I'm guessing that this thing will be similar to a Velocity with regards to opening a door in flight. Meaning that once it is unlatched, there will be NO problem opening it. Maintaining control of the aircraft will be the challenge, assuming the door stays attached and doesn't go through the prop. Maybe the solution to the prop issue would be to add removable hinges on the door plus a tether on the door that would insure it engaged with the prop enough to break all the blades off at the hub?
_________________ -lance
It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 20 May 2020, 11:43 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 05/06/14 Posts: 6556 Post Likes: +7399 Company: The French Tradition Location: KCRQ - Carlsbad - KTOA
Aircraft: 89 A36 TN, 78 Tiger
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Further in he describes how he fixed the door so it can be opened more easily with one hand so the test pilot can open it in flight while maintaining control with the other hand. This raised my eyebrows twice. First I doubt that he has any idea what the aerodynamic forces will be holding that door shut but it could be considerable given the shape of the cockpit. Second, I don't see any practical way to egress with a chute without getting hit by the wing and probably the spinning prop. He assumed that the gas shock would open the door just like it does on the ground. I think my eyes rolled a full 180 to the back of my head when he said that one. Remember, this is an experimental plane designed by a guy who didn’t understand the concept of balancing control surfaces and doesn’t understand that airflow will have an impact on the forces needed to open a door. If the door is openable in whatever form of uncontrollable flight/descent condition the taxicraft (hard to call it an aircraft) is in, and the left wing is still attached, the wing strake comes all the way to the door. The lucky pilot has a shot of using their left hand to grab the strake and guide themselves either above or below the wing. I wouldn’t bet on it, but perhaps the mere possibility of such a maneuver is comforting. As for the spinning meat grinder, I would not agree to test fly that thing without a prop break or release. Maybe shoot a rod through the reduction gear, or use explosive bolts to jettison the prop before attempting to bail out. I would also insist on quick pull hinge pins on the door. Actually, never mind, I would just insist that the plane be redesigned by someone who understands things like aerodynamics, structures and power plants.
The only way I would agree to test flight this thing is in a simulator... It's a pig. Way too heavy. Maybe if it was on a giant dry lake, and be able to remain in ground effect for miles, to trouble shoot controls. And eventually start a climb. But if things go wrong, you can chop power and let it slide on it's belly. With no houses or trees around.
_________________ Bonanza 89 A36 Turbo Norm Grumman Tiger 78
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 20 May 2020, 13:09 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 12/10/07 Posts: 30704 Post Likes: +10721 Location: Minneapolis, MN (KFCM)
Aircraft: 1970 Baron B55
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Maybe if it was on a giant dry lake, and be able to remain in ground effect for miles, to trouble shoot controls. And eventually start a climb. But if things go wrong, you can chop power and let it slide on it's belly. With no houses or trees around. I won't argue in favor of this aircraft but in general I'd rather be a couple thousand feet in the air ASAP assuming it's generally controllable than I would be barreling along at 100+ mph in ground effect. At least up higher you've got some time to work out a problem. Close to the ground at high speed is where things can go very bad very quickly. That said it may be prudent to perform some "hops" on a long runway before actually climbing into the sky, to determine if there are any serious controllabilty issues but that's not the same as covering miles close to the ground.
_________________ -lance
It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 20 May 2020, 14:28 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 07/11/14 Posts: 1195 Post Likes: +312 Location: 46U
Aircraft: C182
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Maybe if it was on a giant dry lake, and be able to remain in ground effect for miles, to trouble shoot controls. And eventually start a climb. But if things go wrong, you can chop power and let it slide on it's belly. With no houses or trees around. I won't argue in favor of this aircraft but in general I'd rather be a couple thousand feet in the air ASAP assuming it's generally controllable than I would be barreling along at 100+ mph in ground effect. At least up higher you've got some time to work out a problem. Close to the ground at high speed is where things can go very bad very quickly. That said it may be prudent to perform some "hops" on a long runway before actually climbing into the sky, to determine if there are any serious controllabilty issues but that's not the same as covering miles close to the ground.
Agree completely. An aircraft is generally a very poor ground vehicle!
Best,
Tom
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 20 May 2020, 20:22 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 01/18/19 Posts: 25 Post Likes: +4
Aircraft: AC11
|
|
Check the price of a brand new Lycoming vs a brand new Audi Diesel
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 21 May 2020, 03:09 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 11/03/08 Posts: 14568 Post Likes: +22936 Location: Peachtree City GA / Stoke-On-Trent UK
Aircraft: A33
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Check the price of a brand new Lycoming vs a brand new Audi Diesel own an audi past the warranty period plus 10 years and compare to the same for a lycoming. See which costs you more.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 27 May 2020, 06:58 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 08/24/13 Posts: 8451 Post Likes: +3687 Company: Aviation Tools / CCX Location: KSMQ New Jersey
Aircraft: TBM700C2
|
|
Username Protected wrote: It looks like testing starts next week. Why no polar graphs? https://youtu.be/BVNu94s8MbwHe calculated a prop strike with the nose gear only 17" in the air. No adjustment for any main gear compression.....
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 27 May 2020, 08:35 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 02/28/17 Posts: 1213 Post Likes: +1191 Location: Panama City, FL
Aircraft: Velocity XL-RG
|
|
Username Protected wrote: He calculated a prop strike with the nose gear only 17" in the air. No adjustment for any main gear compression..... The mains probably won't flex much. And I don't think the nose wheel would ever be 17" off the ground with the mains still on the ground. Canards takeoff and land pretty flat compared to a normal airplane. Now the weight up front is a whole different story! I think he said 390 lbs on the nose wheel empty. His canard doesn't look much different than mine and I've only got 100lbs on my nose wheel. So I'm wondering how fast he's going to have to go to get that thing in the air.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 27 May 2020, 12:28 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 09/21/13 Posts: 1991 Post Likes: +1211 Location: Wausau WI - KAUW
Aircraft: H35
|
|
Username Protected wrote: He calculated a prop strike with the nose gear only 17" in the air. No adjustment for any main gear compression..... The mains probably won't flex much. And I don't think the nose wheel would ever be 17" off the ground with the mains still on the ground. Canards takeoff and land pretty flat compared to a normal airplane. Now the weight up front is a whole different story! I think he said 390 lbs on the nose wheel empty. His canard doesn't look much different than mine and I've only got 100lbs on my nose wheel. So I'm wondering how fast he's going to have to go to get that thing in the air.
Not a canard guy, but also found it interesting that he had 1000+ on the nose when raised on the center of lift for the main wing...is that typical? Seemed like more lift than I'd typically figure for the canard.
I don't doubt that it'll fly, but I can't see it meeting performance numbers or having much useful load, so production viability/marketability is low. It's basically a two seater at this point with ~600# useful if he sticks to his 3800 gross, and he's still missing parts of the interior. The VK30 had similar gross (3600 vs 3800) and similar HP (300), but an EW of 2400...
_________________ Be nice - Jim H Be nice, be kind, I don't care, be something, just don't be a jerk ;-) - Doug R
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 27 May 2020, 13:26 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 08/10/14 Posts: 1734 Post Likes: +832 Location: Northwest Arkansas (KVBT)
Aircraft: TBM850
|
|
Username Protected wrote: I don't doubt that it'll fly, but I can't see it meeting performance numbers or having much useful load, so production viability/marketability is low. It's basically a two seater at this point with ~600# useful if he sticks to his 3800 gross, and he's still missing parts of the interior. The VK30 had similar gross (3600 vs 3800) and similar HP (300), but an EW of 2400... He will need to share a plan for dropping a lot of weight in the production version or next prototype in order for it to have any viability, assuming you are right and it flies.
|
|
Top |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot post attachments in this forum
|
Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us
BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a
forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include
the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner,
Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.
BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates.
Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.
Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2024
|
|
|
|