BeechTalk - BT - Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Diesel

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Aug 2020, 11:36

Username Protected wrote:

I think that was fixed, along with most of the slop in the system. From what I have seen in the videos, the rudder deflecting beyond control range and getting stuck is still an outstanding issue, but I am not sure that will prevent a flight test.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Aug 2020, 11:51

The pedal stop was one issue with the rudders. They also found the right rudder stuck at full deflection of about 40 degrees which it should not have been able to get to with pedals that only go to 25. As of the Wasabi video, they weren’t sure how it happened, but it could have been manually pushed there while there were futzing with various control issues. The addition of simple stops could be enough to get comfortable to fly.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Aug 2020, 12:56

Username Protected wrote:

I remember it differently. I'll go back and re-watch the video.

I hope that a rudder that somehow deflected significantly beyond the max control authority and remained stuck there when the input was removed ... will delay a first flight until understood and remedied.

Still curious about the angry olde know-it-all at the beginning of the video ...

I was laughing about the know it all guy too! We need more of that video. That had my attention...

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Aug 2020, 18:04

Username Protected wrote:

Or is your idea of "better" being a place where if you can get high enough, you can bail out and not worry about the plane impacting populated areas? If that's the case, then St. Augustine would be best. Myrtle would be my second choice providing you use 18.

That's exactly what I'm thinking.

If things go sideways I'd want to be able to either get out and let the plane fall into the ocean or other uninhabited area, or have a place that I could glide to and belly in without killing myself, like the intercostal. VLD doesn't say that to me. 17 has an overrun, but those approach lights are going to tear that plane apart, and if you get just a little farther before the engine quits or the prop runs away, or the flight controls jam, you're again out of options.

I would definitely not like putting people on the ground at risk for my antics.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 12 Aug 2020, 18:47

Username Protected wrote:

Or is your idea of "better" being a place where if you can get high enough, you can bail out and not worry about the plane impacting populated areas? If that's the case, then St. Augustine would be best. Myrtle would be my second choice providing you use 18.

That's exactly what I'm thinking.

If things go sideways I'd want to be able to either get out and let the plane fall into the ocean or other uninhabited area, or have a place that I could glide to and belly in without killing myself, like the intercostal. VLD doesn't say that to me. 17 has an overrun, but those approach lights are going to tear that plane apart, and if you get just a little farther before the engine quits or the prop runs away, or the flight controls jam, you're again out of options.

I would definitely not like putting people on the ground at risk for my antics.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Aug 2020, 09:12

How would you safely bail out with a pusher prop?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Aug 2020, 09:25

Username Protected wrote:

If things go sideways I'd want to be able to either get out and let the plane fall into the ocean or other uninhabited area, or have a place that I could glide to and belly in without killing myself, like the intercostal. VLD doesn't say that to me. 17 has an overrun, but those approach lights are going to tear that plane apart, and if you get just a little farther before the engine quits or the prop runs away, or the flight controls jam, you're again out of options.

There seems to be a bit of contradiction in your post. In order to "get out and let the plane fall", you'd have to be at least 1,000' AGL.

"17 has an overrun but those approach lights are going to tear that plane apart" would indicate that the plane never leaves the ground.

I would submit that the most dangerous part of flight testing this aircraft (initially) is going to be at 1-500'. Not high enough to bail out. So the best chance of surviving for the pilot and those on the ground is nice, flat land off the departure end.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Aug 2020, 09:33

Username Protected wrote:

How would you safely bail out with a pusher prop?

Easy:

Shut down the engine
Open the door
Set the brake
Swing your left leg out
Swing your right leg out
Stand up and walk away from that death trap

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Aug 2020, 10:05

Username Protected wrote:

How would you safely bail out with a pusher prop?

Easy:

Shut down the engine
Open the door
Set the brake
Swing your left leg out
Swing your right leg out
Stand up and walk away from that death trap

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Aug 2020, 10:07

The prototype “Fourwinds” high wing fixed gear experimental kit plane had a near disastrous accidental test flight at the New Smyrna Beach Airport.

The president with one of the employees was planning a high speed run with the hope of lifting off into ground effect then stopping it. The aircraft would not break ground and when Jeff attempted to stop he realized that there was not enough runway remaining. He put full power back in and was able to lift it off at the end of the runway. He barely cleared the trees and went out of sight while skidding it around to attempt a landing. He was way too fast and not able to line up with any runway. He flew over the hangar at about 300 ft. His employees thought he was doing an intentional high speed low pass and I heard one of the non pilot employees that didn’t have clue what was going on state “I bet he is going to roll it!”. He then did a very wide sweeping turn out over Ponce Inlet never getting higher than the light house and was able to line up again and land almost skidding of the end of the 5000’ runway.

When he taxied up to cheers from his employees for what they thought was a successful and planned test flight he was white as ghost and sweating. His passengers hand was bleeding from trying to hold the upper door half that came open and was beating itself against the bottom of the wing.

They had failed to engineer and install flap “up stops” resulting in the flaps deflecting upward like spoilers that got worse as speed was increased. Jeff told me that he and his passenger were pulling as a hard as they could the whole time. The problem was compounded by a tail bulkhead that had a pitch control idler mounted to it flexing giving them only partial up elevator travel.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Aug 2020, 10:23

Username Protected wrote:

The prototype “Fourwinds” high wing fixed gear experimental kit plane had a near disastrous accidental test flight at the New Smyrna Beach Airport.

The president with one of the employees was planning a high speed run with the hope of lifting off into ground effect then stopping it. The aircraft would not break ground and when Jeff attempted to stop he realized that there was not enough runway remaining. He put full power back in and was able to lift it off at the end of the runway. He barely cleared the trees and went out of sight while skidding it around to attempt a landing. He was way too fast and not able to line up with any runway. He flew over the hangar at about 300 ft. His employees thought he was doing an intentional high speed low pass and I heard one of the non pilot employees that didn’t have clue what was going on state “I bet he is going to roll it!”. He then did a very wide sweeping turn out over Ponce Inlet never getting higher than the light house and was able to line up again and land almost skidding of the end of the 5000’ runway.

When he taxied up to cheers from his employees for what they thought was a successful and planned test flight he was white as ghost and sweating. His passengers hand was bleeding from trying to hold the upper door half that came open and was beating itself against the bottom of the wing.

They had failed to engineer and install flap “up stops” resulting in the flaps deflecting upward like spoilers that got worse as speed was increased. Jeff told me that he and his passenger were pulling as a hard as they could the whole time. The problem was compounded by a tail bulkhead that had a pitch control idler mounted to it flexing giving them only partial up elevator travel.

Curious, what ever happened with this design? I believe it was acquired by some ex- Navy types... I believe that Mark B. the engineer for Raptor was the engineer for Fourwinds — so not really thread creep...

Best,

Tom

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Aug 2020, 10:47

Username Protected wrote:

The prototype “Fourwinds” high wing fixed gear experimental kit plane had a near disastrous accidental test flight at the New Smyrna Beach Airport.

The president with one of the employees was planning a high speed run with the hope of lifting off into ground effect then stopping it. The aircraft would not break ground and when Jeff attempted to stop he realized that there was not enough runway remaining. He put full power back in and was able to lift it off at the end of the runway. He barely cleared the trees and went out of sight while skidding it around to attempt a landing. He was way too fast and not able to line up with any runway. He flew over the hangar at about 300 ft. His employees thought he was doing an intentional high speed low pass and I heard one of the non pilot employees that didn’t have clue what was going on state “I bet he is going to roll it!”. He then did a very wide sweeping turn out over Ponce Inlet never getting higher than the light house and was able to line up again and land almost skidding of the end of the 5000’ runway.

When he taxied up to cheers from his employees for what they thought was a successful and planned test flight he was white as ghost and sweating. His passengers hand was bleeding from trying to hold the upper door half that came open and was beating itself against the bottom of the wing.

They had failed to engineer and install flap “up stops” resulting in the flaps deflecting upward like spoilers that got worse as speed was increased. Jeff told me that he and his passenger were pulling as a hard as they could the whole time. The problem was compounded by a tail bulkhead that had a pitch control idler mounted to it flexing giving them only partial up elevator travel.

Curious, what ever happened with this design? I believe it was acquired by some ex- Navy types... I believe that Mark B. the engineer for Raptor was the engineer for Fourwinds — so not really thread creep...

Best,

Tom