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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2020, 09:30 
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Username Protected wrote:
How would you safely bail out with a pusher prop?


Related interesting story of a Velocity test flight in 1989 with unrecoverable stall situation. Pilot rode it down into the Atlantic rather than bailing out... Pilot survived, the plane floated so the they towed it back to shore and flew it again.

http://www.aeroman.org/html/best_pilot.html


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2020, 12:06 
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Watched the wasabi video - those guys are very reasonable and their butts are literally on the line. This Peter guy has too much personally invested and too much Dunning Kruger going on to be able to make rational decisions. From what I can gather he’s not proficient in any aircraft, let alone an untested example. What’s he going to do? BFR in a Cherokee and first flight in an edge of the envelope canard?


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2020, 15:22 
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Username Protected wrote:
Ten bucks says he tries to fly it himself.


Willing to give odds?

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2020, 15:30 
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I started to write he should get some stick time in a velocity to get ready.
But then I realized that is a terrible idea. A velocity is a sweet handling, docile plane. Not at all a good prep for what he's about to try.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2020, 15:34 
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Or perhaps he could pull a Ricky Bobby and get a cougar to fly with him...


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2020, 15:35 
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I started to write he should get some stick time in a velocity to get ready.
But then I realized that is a terrible idea. A velocity is a sweet handling, docile plane. Not at all a good prep for what he's about to try.


Yea, I’m sure CFI Peter is real current. Especially in canards. Or a 3400# underpowered canard that we’re not even sure is stable in pitch.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2020, 15:59 
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... canard that we’re not even sure is stable in pitch.

The website describes a lot of computerized analysis already done on the airplane's aerodynamics. As long as the shape and c.g. on the prototype have little change, then its stability should be a fairly certain quantity.

The test pilots' video talked a lot about many small changes though, so..... we shall certainly see(!).


I'd want to first test a scale model myself (in a wind tunnel, drag it on a tow line, free flight, all of the above). The problem with that is that not everything scales well (boundary layer effects). Even so, if it were my butt in the seat then it would give me some measure of reassurance; the problem with a computer model is that it gives you precise answers but it doesn't tell you if you asked the right questions.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2020, 18:13 
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... canard that we’re not even sure is stable in pitch.

The website describes a lot of computerized analysis already done on the airplane's aerodynamics.

That's exactly what our local canard genius and his fan boys were saying before the splat. Yes; he flew a scale model before flying the prototype.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/ccRddyavMKQ[/youtube]

I am hoping that CFR @ Valdosta is suited up and ready to roll every time Peter flies. I doubt that Raptor's first flight will be both planned and intended.
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Last edited on 14 Aug 2020, 21:02, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2020, 18:40 
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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2020, 19:35 
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That's exactly what our local canard genius and his fan boys were saying before the splat. Yes; he flew a scale model before flying the prototype.

Oof! That video didn't end well.

Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting a physical, scale model in lieu of computer simulation, I'm suggesting both.

(I can't find anything in the NTSB database on that one, based on the date on the YouTube caption. That's is kind of unfortunate... not sure the NTSB would have had much to say about it anyway, but still.)


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2020, 19:49 
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Username Protected wrote:
That's exactly what our local canard genius and his fan boys were saying before the splat. Yes; he flew a scale model before flying the prototype.

Oof! That video didn't end well.

Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting a physical, scale model in lieu of computer simulation, I'm suggesting both.

(I can't find anything in the NTSB database on that one, based on the date on the YouTube caption. That's is kind of unfortunate... not sure the NTSB would have had much to say about it anyway, but still.)


Maybe it was reported and filed as a car crash

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2020, 20:42 
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Username Protected wrote:
That's exactly what our local canard genius and his fan boys were saying before the splat. Yes; he flew a scale model before flying the prototype.

I am hoping that CFR @ Valdosta is suited up and ready to roll every time Peter flies. I doubt that the first flight will be both unplanned and unintended.

Neither parachutes nor a plethora of off airport landing sites will help if the Raptor does something like what happened in the video.

The pilot did the right thing by shutting the engine down but I'm surprised he let it get that far before doing so. I would think any competent test pilot would chop the throttle the instant they found that pitch couldn't be controlled while still near the ground. Not a lot of time to react though.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2020, 20:54 
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Username Protected wrote:
That's exactly what our local canard genius and his fan boys were saying before the splat. Yes; he flew a scale model before flying the prototype.

Oof! That video didn't end well.

Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting a physical, scale model in lieu of computer simulation, I'm suggesting both.

Sanjay Dahl used CFD (computational fluid dynamics for the aero work) and mechanical CAD for the structure and kinematics. The RC model was grossly over-powered compared to the prototype. I suspect that the almost instantaneous acceleration of the model masked the no-rotation problem(s) that Sanjay had been struggling with for many weeks. Like Peter, Sanjay is very confident. Unlike Peter, he is very charismatic and personable. Those of us who respectfully asked questions were made very unwelcome by his disciples.

Here's another video re: flight test complacency and the Law of Unintended Consequences. I was first shown this video ~25 years ago by the Asst. Director of (NASA) Flight Test @ Edwards. The YouTube comments and dates don't square with what I was told.

It's from the timeframe when the Blues were preparing to transition from Scooters to Hornets. This was one of the early qualifying flights. Apparently this is the first time that a Hornet attempted a series of aileron rolls in a slick config w/light fuel load. The original test card called for the rolls to be done 1,000' lower. Aileron rolls in a NAVAIR qualified airframe, deployed widely in fleet service. How tough can that be, eh? Uff dah!

[youtube]https://youtu.be/o_c_QdDxrHE[/youtube]

The explanation that Ed gave was ... yaw induced roll coupling had not been sufficiently considered. Think: Kids tippe top

I hope that Peter does not kill himself or experience a similar, almost unrecoverable Code Brown moment.
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Last edited on 15 Aug 2020, 12:22, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2020, 21:13 
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Some bolts weren’t safety wired in the torsional dampener and came loose causing a funny vibration. Wait till you see his latest video.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2020, 23:22 
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Username Protected wrote:
Some bolts weren’t safety wired in the torsional dampener and came loose causing a funny vibration. Wait till you see his latest video.

Watched the teardown... :bugeye:

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