19 Mar 2024, 00:35 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
|
Username Protected |
Message |
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 25 Apr 2017, 14:02 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 01/18/11 Posts: 7681 Post Likes: +3685 Location: Lakeland , Ga
Aircraft: H35, T-41B, Aircoupe
|
|
300hp version of this one would be about right
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 25 Apr 2017, 15:36 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 11/06/10 Posts: 11879 Post Likes: +2846 Company: Looking Location: Outside Boston, or some hotel somewhere
Aircraft: None
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Sorry I thought that part was obvious. No issue, I am a computer geek, not an engineer.... Tim
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 25 Apr 2017, 16:15 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 12/10/07 Posts: 30319 Post Likes: +10475 Location: Minneapolis, MN (KFCM)
Aircraft: 1970 Baron B55
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Sorry I thought that part was obvious. No issue, I am a computer geek, not an engineer.... Tim Just yanking your chain. I'm actually a computer geek first and engineer second.
_________________ -lance
It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 25 Apr 2017, 16:27 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 11/06/10 Posts: 11879 Post Likes: +2846 Company: Looking Location: Outside Boston, or some hotel somewhere
Aircraft: None
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Just yanking your chain. I'm actually a computer geek first and engineer second. CS major for me. Hard to believe I have been in the IT field for 28 years now. Now I think I was an idiot for dumping the second major, I was just a few classes shy of an Econ degree at the same time and going for a graduate degree. Anyway, I think the Raptor using an auto engine conversion is dramatically increasing the engineering complexity. And I just do not see the reward for such complexity. The real BSFC of diesel auto engines, or aviation conversions such as Thierlert and Diamond, is only a few points better then WOT LOP. An EFI system will get you most of the way there, for a lot less complexity on an old proven Lycoming or Continental. The economics and the engineering around the auto conversion just do not add up to my simple brain. Tim
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 25 Apr 2017, 16:32 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 11/03/08 Posts: 14496 Post Likes: +22799 Location: Peachtree City GA / Stoke-On-Trent UK
Aircraft: A33
|
|
Username Protected wrote: An EFI system will get you most of the way there, for a lot less complexity on an old proven Lycoming or Continental. The economics and the engineering around the auto conversion just do not add up to my simple brain.
Tim https://www.lycoming.com/engines/ie2
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 25 Apr 2017, 16:47 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 12/10/07 Posts: 30319 Post Likes: +10475 Location: Minneapolis, MN (KFCM)
Aircraft: 1970 Baron B55
|
|
Username Protected wrote: And we haven't even started talking avionics/panel... Let's see... $100k for the full integrated avionics suite leaves almost $50k for the airplane and engine. Hmmm.
_________________ -lance
It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 25 Apr 2017, 17:00 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 01/18/11 Posts: 7681 Post Likes: +3685 Location: Lakeland , Ga
Aircraft: H35, T-41B, Aircoupe
|
|
I am assuming they would use G3x
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 25 Apr 2017, 18:27 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 10/26/08 Posts: 4636 Post Likes: +1024 Location: Pinehurst, NC (KSOP)
Aircraft: 1965 Bonanza S35
|
|
Username Protected wrote: And we haven't even started talking avionics/panel... Let's see... $100k for the full integrated avionics suite leaves almost $50k for the airplane and engine. Hmmm.
This from their site...
Quote: The BRS parachute will be an optional extra that normally retails at around $15,000. We will be trying to get it for close to $10,000.
Item Qty Retail Cost Total Cost Carbon Fiber Air Frame 1 $40,000.00 $40,000.00 3.0L Audi TDI 1 $22,000.00 $22,000.00 Garmin G3X Touch 2 screen option 1 $9,399.00 $9,399.00 Garmin Autopilot pitch and roll 1 $1,500.00 $1,500.00 Garmin Autopilot Controller 1 $750.00 $750.00 Garmin Heated AOA Pitot 1 $299.00 $299.00 Garmin GTN750 1 $14,895.00 $14,895.00 Garmin GTR200 secondary Comm 1 $1,199.00 $1,199.00 Garmin GMA35 1 $845.00 $845.00 Garmin GDL39R ADS-B 1 $799.00 $799.00 Garmin GTX23 ES Transponder 1 $2,199.00 $2,199.00 Garmin IFR navigation adapter 1 $425.00 $425.00 Garmin addtnl GSU25 ADAHRS 1 $799.00 $799.00 Antennas/Connectors/Harness/Misc Avionics $2,000.00 $2,000.00 Vertical Power VPX Pro 1 $1,995.00 $1,995.00 Vertical Power Connector Kit 1 $160.00 $160.00 Switches 10 $27.50 $275.00 MT Propeller MTV-5 Constant Speed 1 $17,000.00 $17,000.00 Grove Main Gear 1 $1,700.00 $1,700.00 Nose Gear 1 $3,500.00 $3,500.00 Door Seals 2 $800.00 $1,600.00 Fuel Tank Senders 3 $139.80 $419.40 Fuel Line 1 $100.00 $100.00 Electric Fuel Pump 1 $47.00 $47.00 Fuel Cutoff valve and Fixtures 1 $200.00 $200.00 Fuel Caps 2 $349.50 $699.00 Landing Light 1 $550.00 $550.00 Lighting Exterior 1 $1,150.00 $1,150.00 Lighting Interior 4 $168.79 $675.16 Batteries 2 $137.95 $275.90 Acrylic Windows 1 $4,000.00 $4,000.00 Pressurization 1 $15,000.00 $15,000.00 Air Conditioning 1 $6,000.00 $6,000.00 Seats and Upholstery 1 $4,000.00 $4,000.00 Seat Belts 4 $300.00 $1,200.00 Control Sticks 2 $199.50 $399.00 Paint or Wrap 1 $10,000.00 $10,000.00 Tires 6x6 3 $119.00 $357.00 Berringer Wheels and Brakes 1 $7,900.00 $7,900.00 Total Retail Cost $176,311.46 What you will actually pay $130,000.00
_________________ dino
"TRUTH is AUTHORITY..... Authority is not Truth"
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 25 Apr 2017, 20:06 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 11/22/12 Posts: 2567 Post Likes: +2325 Company: Retired Location: Lynnwood, WA (KPAE)
Aircraft: 1993 Bonanza A36TN
|
|
Username Protected wrote: The history of auto engine conversions shows that getting them to certification level of reliability requires substituting so many custom parts that the cost savings evaporate. Diamond AE-300 engines have done well, and they share a lot of parts with the production MB engines. But it didn't make them cheaper, they're still more expensive than conventional aircraft engines. When Diamond offered owners of Thielert-powered DA-42s the option of re-engining their planes, converting to AE-300 power cost $145,000 vs. $125,000 for Lycoming.
Here's a video that explains all the MB parts they remove and replace with custom stuff, basically everything except the long block. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRL-2033lok
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 25 Apr 2017, 20:09 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 11/06/10 Posts: 11879 Post Likes: +2846 Company: Looking Location: Outside Boston, or some hotel somewhere
Aircraft: None
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Didn't have time to read through the EPI content yet, but wouldn't the use of a reduction belt drive minimize any vibration related to the propeller?
Minimize no. It just changes the frequency; which can be beneficial depending on what you are doing. Now the belt with idle tensioners on both sides of the power pulley can be used to reduce/eliminate TV. How to actually accomplish this is way over my head. Tim
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 25 Apr 2017, 20:44 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 08/21/13 Posts: 877 Post Likes: +590 Location: Charlotte NC (KEQY)
Aircraft: 1972 58 (TH-237)
|
|
Username Protected wrote: They should just bolt this engine to the plane.... https://eps.aero/They have been making steady progress on this engine, with a goal of certification in 2017. (Not bad since they predicted 2016 certification in 2013, so slipping, but not by much) The company looks like the real deal. Its my understanding that they have received all of the investment they need to reach certification. I actually think that one of these engines bolted to a lanciair evolution would be ideal. It would have more than enough range to go anywhere in the world. Where is the steady progress? Their "Latest Update" was 3 years ago: https://eps.aero/latest-updates/
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 25 Apr 2017, 21:51 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 12/10/07 Posts: 30319 Post Likes: +10475 Location: Minneapolis, MN (KFCM)
Aircraft: 1970 Baron B55
|
|
Username Protected wrote: This from their site...
From that list the avionics total is $37,500 a bit less than half of my guess (I was thinking of certified avionics) but it's also a pretty minimal panel for a 200+ kt high altitude cruiser. No stormscope, backup instruments etc. I'm also wondering how a "kit" consisting of prefab fuselage, wings, and tail plus a bunch of systems to install can meet the 51% rule but Epic managed about the same thing if the builder spent a month at the factor being "assisted".
_________________ -lance
It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
|
|
Top |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot post attachments in this forum
|
Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us
BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a
forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include
the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner,
Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.
BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates.
Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.
Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2024
|
|
|
|