29 Mar 2024, 11:49 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 18 Jan 2020, 19:10 |
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Joined: 11/22/12 Posts: 2572 Post Likes: +2330 Company: Retired Location: Lynnwood, WA (KPAE)
Aircraft: 1993 Bonanza A36TN
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Username Protected wrote: My guess is he is out of money or running on fumes and needs this thing to fly so he can get more funds to continue the project. He said as much in his burnout video last summer. Quote: I understood him to say he may move to a fly by wire set up because the current set up has few good options moving forward. I played that section twice, I couldn't believe he's serious. If he's having trouble finding someone willing to fly it now ….
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 18 Jan 2020, 20:03 |
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Joined: 01/18/11 Posts: 7681 Post Likes: +3685 Location: Lakeland , Ga
Aircraft: H35, T-41B, Aircoupe
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Username Protected wrote: My boat uses sleeved cables for the rudder. Best i can tell there is less free play than a cable /pulley system. However they are pull,only, two cables to the rudder bar. You can remove almost all of the slop by using two cables, at the expense of more friction and more wear. Also in most boats the consequence of a small amount of looseness or springiness is minor compared to the potential for flutter of an aircraft control surface. And I'd bet that the steering cable on your boat has a much larger diameter than what was used on the Raptor. In any case, critical systems like aircraft control linkages are no place for "cut and try" solutions. I believe my cables are 3/8 stainless steel, the sleeve is about 3/4. It is surprisingly rigid, i had to replace them last year needed only a couple of clamps. I doubt the total weight is more than a cable and pulley system. If one can get a straight line, i like torque tubes for aileron.
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 18 Jan 2020, 20:15 |
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Joined: 03/22/18 Posts: 3808 Post Likes: +2104 Location: Nashville, TN
Aircraft: Lazarus - a B60 Duke
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Username Protected wrote: My boat uses sleeved cables for the rudder. Best i can tell there is less free play than a cable /pulley system. However they are pull,only, two cables to the rudder bar. Mine does as well, as it does for the shifter cable, but they are also not under air load. The steering teleflex on mine drives a power steering unit on the outdrive, so the only load it imposes is just enough to move the shuttle valve in the power steering rack. Same with the shifter cable for the outdrive, and that requires replacement about every 400-500 hours of operation as it starts to dry up and the elements take their toll. With the air loads this thing will have, I'm not sold on that being a safe solution for something that is full-time moving around all day every day.
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 19 Jan 2020, 00:09 |
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Joined: 02/01/09 Posts: 1330 Post Likes: +904 Company: boyes bros. inc. Location: Mexico,Missouri
Aircraft: baron b55
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I bet his idea of sleeved flight control cables originated with RC aircraft models. My first RC airplane was a P51 and the plans called for embedded plastic sleeves in a foam core wing. The airplane almost disintegrated on its first flight from aileron flutter. They made a buzzing noise that could be heard from the ground.
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 19 Jan 2020, 09:48 |
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Joined: 01/31/10 Posts: 13101 Post Likes: +6969
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Long sleeved cables can stiffen up with a little grease and subZ temps at altitude. This is a common issue for engine control cables on many aircraft.
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 19 Jan 2020, 10:01 |
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Joined: 03/17/08 Posts: 6052 Post Likes: +12360 Location: KMCW
Aircraft: B55 PII,F-1,L-2,OTW,
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If these were Morse push-pull type cables it might be one thing, but is simply aircraft cable in a piece of tubing.
I wonder if the inspector was thinking that he'd use Morse type cables and he just put the cable in a piece of plastic pipe. There is no possible way he will get the slop out of the ailerons with this approach.
It is becoming a Greek tragedy play.
_________________ Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal MCW Be Nice, Kind, I don't care, be something, just don't be a jerk ;-)
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 19 Jan 2020, 14:48 |
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Joined: 05/05/09 Posts: 4946 Post Likes: +4785
Aircraft: G44, C501, C55, R66
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Username Protected wrote: I bet his idea of sleeved flight control cables originated with RC aircraft models. My first RC airplane was a P51 and the plans called for embedded plastic sleeves in a foam core wing. The airplane almost disintegrated on its first flight from aileron flutter. They made a buzzing noise that could be heard from the ground. These are called "Nyrods". No modern RC airplane uses these anymore for flight controls. They are too sloppy.
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 19 Jan 2020, 14:56 |
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Joined: 08/24/13 Posts: 8409 Post Likes: +3662 Company: Aviation Tools / CCX Location: KSMQ New Jersey
Aircraft: TBM700C2
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Username Protected wrote: These are called "Nyrods". No modern RC airplane uses these anymore for flight controls. They are too sloppy. Our Raptor guy seems determined to try everything that has already been proven to not work.
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 19 Jan 2020, 15:15 |
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Joined: 05/05/09 Posts: 4946 Post Likes: +4785
Aircraft: G44, C501, C55, R66
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Username Protected wrote: These are called "Nyrods". No modern RC airplane uses these anymore for flight controls. They are too sloppy. Our Raptor guy seems determined to try everything that has already been proven to not work.
I do think a modern servo based control actuator is viable; maybe 2 servos as a back up, is a decent idea. I have no idea how you would control the servo with a side stick. I don’t know of any available fly by wire system available for little airplanes.
I feel his engineering is so whacky that there’s no space for direct pushrods.
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 19 Jan 2020, 15:51 |
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Joined: 01/30/09 Posts: 3343 Post Likes: +1948 Location: $ilicon Vall€y
Aircraft: Columbia 400
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Username Protected wrote: I feel his engineering is so whacky that there’s no space for direct pushrods. Engineering is too strong of a word. More like "arts and crafts", bordering on "folk-art".
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 19 Jan 2020, 16:49 |
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Joined: 11/22/12 Posts: 2572 Post Likes: +2330 Company: Retired Location: Lynnwood, WA (KPAE)
Aircraft: 1993 Bonanza A36TN
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Username Protected wrote: I don’t know of any available fly by wire system available for little airplanes. The only FBW civil airplane I could find smaller than the Falcon bizjet is the Nixus sailplane project, which took a decade for an experienced aircraft designer professor with free grad-student labor. No way is that a quick solution. It's like he realizes he's bitten off more than he can chew in the time available and his 'solution' is to add a big slug of taffy to the mouthful. Taxi, Raptor, taxi!
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 19 Jan 2020, 22:36 |
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Joined: 05/06/14 Posts: 6540 Post Likes: +7392 Company: The French Tradition Location: KCRQ - Carlsbad - KTOA
Aircraft: 89 A36 TN, 78 Tiger
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Fly by wires... Yeah, that makes sense. Loose power and it will get interesting real fast. Get back on the pulley system, and just do a better job with it. Add some tensioning springs to help with the system if need be.
_________________ Bonanza 89 A36 Turbo Norm Grumman Tiger 78
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 20 Jan 2020, 03:22 |
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Joined: 11/03/08 Posts: 14530 Post Likes: +22861 Location: Peachtree City GA / Stoke-On-Trent UK
Aircraft: A33
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Many airplanes have control system bandaids added to their design. Bonanzas certainly have plenty. The mistake this guy is making is to always look at more complicated architecture as a cure. All he needs is a to keep the cables, add a few pulleys and a strategically placed spring or 2. What we are seeing on those videos is a 1930's problem and it is best fixed with a 1930's solution.
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