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29 Mar 2024, 11:49 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 18 Jan 2020, 19:10 
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Username Protected wrote:
My guess is he is out of money or running on fumes and needs this thing to fly so he can get more funds to continue the project.
He said as much in his burnout video last summer.
Quote:
I understood him to say he may move to a fly by wire set up because the current set up has few good options moving forward.
I played that section twice, I couldn't believe he's serious. If he's having trouble finding someone willing to fly it now ….


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 18 Jan 2020, 20:03 
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Location: Lakeland , Ga
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My boat uses sleeved cables for the rudder. Best i can tell there is less free play than a cable /pulley system.
However they are pull,only, two cables to the rudder bar.

You can remove almost all of the slop by using two cables, at the expense of more friction and more wear. Also in most boats the consequence of a small amount of looseness or springiness is minor compared to the potential for flutter of an aircraft control surface.

And I'd bet that the steering cable on your boat has a much larger diameter than what was used on the Raptor.

In any case, critical systems like aircraft control linkages are no place for "cut and try" solutions.

I believe my cables are 3/8 stainless steel, the sleeve is about 3/4. It is surprisingly rigid, i had to replace them last year needed only a couple of clamps.
I doubt the total weight is more than a cable and pulley system. If one can get a straight line, i like torque tubes for aileron.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 18 Jan 2020, 20:15 
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Username Protected wrote:
My boat uses sleeved cables for the rudder. Best i can tell there is less free play than a cable /pulley system.
However they are pull,only, two cables to the rudder bar.

Mine does as well, as it does for the shifter cable, but they are also not under air load.

The steering teleflex on mine drives a power steering unit on the outdrive, so the only load it imposes is just enough to move the shuttle valve in the power steering rack.

Same with the shifter cable for the outdrive, and that requires replacement about every 400-500 hours of operation as it starts to dry up and the elements take their toll.

With the air loads this thing will have, I'm not sold on that being a safe solution for something that is full-time moving around all day every day.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 19 Jan 2020, 00:09 
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I bet his idea of sleeved flight control cables originated with RC aircraft models. My first RC airplane was a P51 and the plans called for embedded plastic sleeves in a foam core wing. The airplane almost disintegrated on its first flight from aileron flutter. They made a buzzing noise that could be heard from the ground.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 19 Jan 2020, 09:48 
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Long sleeved cables can stiffen up with a little grease and subZ temps at altitude. This is a common issue for engine control cables on many aircraft.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 19 Jan 2020, 10:01 
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If these were Morse push-pull type cables it might be one thing, but is simply aircraft cable in a piece of tubing.

I wonder if the inspector was thinking that he'd use Morse type cables and he just put the cable in a piece of plastic pipe. There is no possible way he will get the slop out of the ailerons with this approach.

It is becoming a Greek tragedy play.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 19 Jan 2020, 10:54 
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I do NOT like several (unrelated) construction details revealed in the video. The E-AB DAR that I know would not sign-off his workmanship choices.

WRT the sleeved cables; sloppy work. Why are the cable ends not square in the brackets? Why is there not a nut securing both sides of the threaded end in the bracket?

FBW? Then he mentions using a linear pot. Whoa. Not a sound design.

Perhaps we should start a GoFundMe to take a chainsaw to this airframe.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 19 Jan 2020, 14:48 
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Username Protected wrote:
I bet his idea of sleeved flight control cables originated with RC aircraft models. My first RC airplane was a P51 and the plans called for embedded plastic sleeves in a foam core wing. The airplane almost disintegrated on its first flight from aileron flutter. They made a buzzing noise that could be heard from the ground.


These are called "Nyrods". No modern RC airplane uses these anymore for flight controls. They are too sloppy.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 19 Jan 2020, 14:56 
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Username Protected wrote:
These are called "Nyrods". No modern RC airplane uses these anymore for flight controls. They are too sloppy.


Our Raptor guy seems determined to try everything that has already been proven to not work.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 19 Jan 2020, 15:15 
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Username Protected wrote:
These are called "Nyrods". No modern RC airplane uses these anymore for flight controls. They are too sloppy.


Our Raptor guy seems determined to try everything that has already been proven to not work.


I do think a modern servo based control actuator is viable; maybe 2 servos as a back up, is a decent idea. I have no idea how you would control the servo with a side stick. I don’t know of any available fly by wire system available for little airplanes.

I feel his engineering is so whacky that there’s no space for direct pushrods.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 19 Jan 2020, 15:51 
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Username Protected wrote:
I feel his engineering is so whacky that there’s no space for direct pushrods.


Engineering is too strong of a word.

More like "arts and crafts", bordering on "folk-art".


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 19 Jan 2020, 16:49 
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I don’t know of any available fly by wire system available for little airplanes.
The only FBW civil airplane I could find smaller than the Falcon bizjet is the Nixus sailplane project, which took a decade for an experienced aircraft designer professor with free grad-student labor. No way is that a quick solution. It's like he realizes he's bitten off more than he can chew in the time available and his 'solution' is to add a big slug of taffy to the mouthful.

Taxi, Raptor, taxi!


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 19 Jan 2020, 17:00 
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Given Peter's inability to design a proper mechanical aileron control linkage, I strongly suspect that any electrical replacement he comes up with will also be unsatisfactory given that such a system is probably an order of magnitude more complex.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 19 Jan 2020, 22:36 
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Fly by wires...
Yeah, that makes sense. :eek:
Loose power and it will get interesting real fast.

Get back on the pulley system, and just do a better job with it. Add some tensioning springs to help with the system if need be.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 20 Jan 2020, 03:22 
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Many airplanes have control system bandaids added to their design. Bonanzas certainly have plenty. The mistake this guy is making is to always look at more complicated architecture as a cure. All he needs is a to keep the cables, add a few pulleys and a strategically placed spring or 2. What we are seeing on those videos is a 1930's problem and it is best fixed with a 1930's solution.


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