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09 Dec 2019, 16:38 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Diesel
PostPosted: 12 May 2016, 11:25 
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Joined: 10/26/08
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Company: Bystronic
Location: Pinehurst, NC (KSOP)
Aircraft: 1965 Bonanza S35
There have been several BeechTalkers, including myself, that have mentioned this aircraft in various other threads.

Thought we'd start a thread specifically for this plane.

Although there have been comments of this being nothing more than vaporware, it seems to be progressing nicely with video updates weekly, sometimes twice weekly.


So.....

Here's some pics and some links.


http://raptor-aircraft.com/

The blog...

https://medium.com/@RaptorAircraft

The first video...

http://youtu.be/hLY59_jImLc



And finally, some pic's...


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 12 May 2016, 11:37 
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Joined: 04/04/12
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Location: KSBP, CA
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IF they can do what they state, then I'm in. Even if they can do it with another 20% I'm in.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 12 May 2016, 11:47 
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Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 12342
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Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEVV
Aircraft: MU-2B-26, N305DS
Username Protected wrote:
it seems to be progressing nicely

Yes, the marketing is coming along nicely.

I'm not sure what universe they plan to build it in, the numbers they give certainly aren't from ours.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 12 May 2016, 11:56 
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Aircraft: 1965 Bonanza S35
Username Protected wrote:
it seems to be progressing nicely

Yes, the marketing is coming along nicely.

I'm not sure what universe they plan to build it in, the numbers they give certainly aren't from ours.

Mike C.



Watcha doin over here Mikey? :scratch:


Thought you were devoting most of your time spoiling the Cirrus jet thread and Championing the cause of the MU-2... :duck:



As for your "marketing" barb... I'm really not seeing anything from these guys other than their updates to the blog. :shrug:
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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 12 May 2016, 11:57 
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Joined: 05/13/14
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Location: Central Texas (KTPL)
Aircraft: '78 Bonanza A36
If this ever sees the light of day and the claimed specs are realized, he will have found a way to suspend the laws of physics, or so it would seem. And the laws of economics.

I cannot imagine this thing being built for $130K for the experimental market. Don't Lancair IV-Ps cost nearly $500K to build?

Hope I'm wrong, because this looks like an awesome concept.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 12 May 2016, 12:22 
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Location: Wichita, KS
Aircraft: Mooney 201
I'm sure Audi is very excited to see their engine going into an airplane too.

They are awfully optimistic.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 12 May 2016, 12:27 
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Company: American Aviation, Inc.
Location: Hayden Lake, ID
Aircraft: C90,340,PA31,PA31T
With a constant speed propeller, a diesel 300 hp engine will have the same acceleration as a 300 hp gasoline engine. It is a common misconception that a diesel, "will accelerate faster than a gasoline engine since it has more torque."


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 12 May 2016, 12:32 
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Location: St. Pete, FL
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Username Protected wrote:
If this ever sees the light of day and the claimed specs are realized, he will have found a way to suspend the laws of physics, or so it would seem. And the laws of economics.

I cannot imagine this thing being built for $130K for the experimental market. Don't Lancair IV-Ps cost nearly $500K to build?

Hope I'm wrong, because this looks like an awesome concept.


Totally agree. I'd love to see this materialize, but it really sounds like a pipe dream. If this is true, I'm all in... heck it would be a hot seller at twice the price and less features!

It's a bit unclear is this is a partial homebuilt or what. It says $130 for a "complete" plane, but then goes on to talk about the 51% rule....

But, we've seen this over and over again.... there's been lots of promised revolutions in aircraft design and cheap, faster and more capable planes... and where are they? All gone.

I still remember the Porchel Equator.... a 200kt amphibious 6 pax plane for cheap. Still have their original brochure, about 40 years old. Has evolved into a much smaller plane, and is it out yet? Who knows.

Really hope they make it, but for now, I'm keeping the Beechcraft.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 12 May 2016, 12:41 
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Location: Portland, OR
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I think the phrase "paper airplane" was posted in reference to this aircraft -- a phrase I enjoyed immensely and plan to use often in the future. (possibly it was from MikeC, who Dino has an amusing allergy to, despite him being the best thing on BT)

Anyone can put numbers on a page. I think if the diesel engine had "that much" magic, then it would've taken aviation by storm.

I hope it does one day, but it's hard to imagine, and certainly hard to imagine placing a deposit for one. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 12 May 2016, 12:57 
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Username Protected wrote:
I think if the diesel engine had "that much" magic, then it would've taken aviation by storm.


Mooney's experience using a Porsche engine poisoned the waters for auto engines in airplanes.

Reliability in an automotive environment does not translate to reliability in an aircraft.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 12 May 2016, 13:20 
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Location: Rogers, AR (KVBT)
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Their performance numbers are based on computer simulations comparing power/weight/drag value of a Cirrus SR22 to the design of the Raptor.

There are a lot of assumptions, but it is not unreasonable to think that an airframe design with less drag and the same power can go faster.

I really like their transparency in the design process and the videos of the construction of the prototype.

What I would like to know but can't figure out is their business model - how do they think they are going to build a sustainable company selling these things at cost (or even below, as they hope)?

I would say that if they can keep their current pace on the prototype they might have a customer aircraft flying in 2 years for $175k that tops out at 260kts with 4 passengers. Not as optimistic as their claims, but that would still be quite an airplane.

And if you get in line now you can be #450 or something on the list for one...


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 12 May 2016, 13:22 
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Location: Georgetown, Texas 512-688-5248 chip@jetacq.com
Maybe they'll use the same purchase agreement Vern had for Eclipse. It allowed for devaluation of the dollar, so that sub $1M airplane actually cost $1.2M

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 12 May 2016, 13:40 
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Joined: 10/26/08
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Location: Pinehurst, NC (KSOP)
Aircraft: 1965 Bonanza S35
Username Protected wrote:
Their performance numbers are based on computer simulations comparing power/weight/drag value of a Cirrus SR22 to the design of the Raptor.

There are a lot of assumptions, but it is not unreasonable to think that an airframe design with less drag and the same power can go faster.

I really like their transparency in the design process and the videos of the construction of the prototype.

What I would like to know but can't figure out is their business model - how do they think they are going to build a sustainable company selling these things at cost (or even below, as they hope)?


I would say that if they can keep their current pace on the prototype they might have a customer aircraft flying in 2 years for $175k that tops out at 260kts with 4 passengers. Not as optimistic as their claims, but that would still be quite an airplane.

And if you get in line now you can be #450 or something on the list for one...



I don't claim to know everything about this plane, although I've been following it for a year now. Heck, I'm still not sure how they're gonna accomplish what appears to be flush mounted glass and have it be pressurized? :scratch:

I also like that they're looking into running the engine coolant through the leading edges of the the wing and canard to provide anti-icing.

As for the business model? I'm not sure either, but then again, I don't know how Amazon stayed in business for so long without showing a profit, or Tesla for that matter.

I too appreciate his apparent transparency and am hoping that this plane does prove out to be aerodynamically capable of achieving the #'s their claiming.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 12 May 2016, 14:47 
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Username Protected wrote:

As for the business model? I'm not sure either, but then again, I don't know how Amazon stayed in business for so long without showing a profit, or Tesla for that matter.


Nothing to do with the Raptor business model, or with Tesla.

But, Amazon has been putting every cent back into the business for years.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 12 May 2016, 15:47 
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Quote:
I'm not sure what universe they plan to build it in, the numbers they give certainly aren't from ours.


The coolest thing with this airplane, is that we can all throw away our aircrafts when the Raptor hits the marked. Who would pay almost 200'$ for a Cessna 210 or Bonanza from 1980, when you can have the Raptor. With almost double the performance.
:crazy:


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