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 Post subject: PC-12 NG Pirep
PostPosted: 31 Jan 2016, 12:53 
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Joined: 01/16/11
Posts: 11068
Post Likes: +7097
Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Aircraft: PC12NG, G3Tat
I have over 100 hrs now in the PC12 and I figured I'd give my version of a crappy pirep.

After spending way too much time trying to figure out how to haul my brood around the country I finally settled on a 2008 PC12 NG. My mission requirements were to be able to carry 10 folks around (6 of them currently are kids), associated baggage and be able to go at least 1000nm. My next set of requirements were travel related.....I needed (not wanted :D ) to be able to fly to the Bahamas and land on shortish, not always perfectly paved runways.......even though most of the runways in the Bahamas are actually in decent enough shape. The next piece was that I wanted a good autopilot and and a glass cockpit. Personally for me the improved situational awareness that glass brings was important. I'll most probably get flamed for this but I also wanted an airplane that was easy to fly.

I test flew an older /45 and it was much heavier on the controls than the NG. I also wanted a better autopilot and the NG has what I consider to be a very, very good autopilot in the Honeywell Apex system. Even though the NG cost a fair bit more I believe that trued out, it will end up costing less.

What I like:

Plane is incredibly well built. Every piece of it has been well thought out. It was really well designed and built.
It's fairly efficient.....I flight plan about 270 and about 75 gallons the first hour and and about 60 thereafter.
It hauls my whole family and associated baggage (and it does it easily).
It is easy to fly and it's easy to hand fly and trim, although there is no manual trim.
It goes a long way before needing more JetA.
It's fairly efficient down low too, so my options are increased when there are some serious headwinds to fight up high.
It lands damn slow with 40 degrees of flaps.
It's seriously hard to have a bad landing in the airplane.
The cargo door is a winner of note.

The only thing that I don't like about the airplane is the potty.......%#$@ (no pun intended) you'd think they'd have given a little more thought to the crapper. It's too low to the ground, has limited holding capacity and just ain't up to my personal throne expectations. Mine did not come with a PTT in the potty, so I did install one ;)

Twin vs single debate was that I struggled mightily with only having one engine but after reviewing the safety stats on the PC12 (and turbines in general) I felt very comfortable with my chances should the fan quit. What surprised me was how well the airplane glides. It has dual AOA's and given an engine out scenario there are specifics to how to fly to an airport if that is a consideration. At 1,500 a turn back to the field is taught and is easy to do if well trained.

The one thing that I've really come to enjoy, rather surprisingly, is the Honeywell Apex system. I flew the G1000 in the TBM and I have the Aspen w/waas in my Baron coupled to the 530/GMX200. At first I was a little taken aback by the methodology employed on the Apex system, but I love it now. I think that the workload for single pilot is dramatically reduced because of it. A testament to the ease of use, Charlotte, the official captain, likes it better than all other systems she has tried to learn in the past. All that being said Honeywell cannot make the XM metars appear reliably although i hear that version 10 will remedy that.

Friends have asked whether I would choose the PC-12 NG again. For me, with my current mission, the answer is a definitive yes.

_________________
---Rusty Shoe Keeper---


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 Post subject: Re: PC-12 NG Pirep
PostPosted: 31 Jan 2016, 13:11 
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Joined: 01/24/08
Posts: 1127
Post Likes: +483
Location: Austin, TX (KGTU)
Aircraft: Baron E55 Pitts S-1S
Actually a great Pirep as it made me wish that I could afford to own/operate one!

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Sorry if I repeat what's already been said, I never read all the posts
Jack Stovall
BE55E


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 Post subject: Re: PC-12 NG Pirep
PostPosted: 31 Jan 2016, 13:12 
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Joined: 11/07/11
Posts: 856
Post Likes: +479
Location: KBED, KCRE
Aircraft: Phenom 100
Great write up, Michael. What's your "typical" mission mileage?

The Pilatus keeps making it near the top of our list for next upgrade as we find ourselves bringing more and more people with us. Did you look at any other planes as well? Coming from a TBM I'd image seating for 10 is an off case, did you look at any jets?

Do you miss the speed of the TBM?


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 Post subject: Re: PC-12 NG Pirep
PostPosted: 31 Jan 2016, 13:32 
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Joined: 09/04/10
Posts: 3543
Post Likes: +3246
Aircraft: C55, PC-12
Michael, I am so glad you are happy!!!

I think the KA200 the closest to the PC- 12 in cabin (comfort and seats) and speed. Having sat in both, yours is nicer. The KA costs a more to operate, the PC12 costs more to buy. Initially, I didn't think I'd fly the KA as much since it's faster than the P baron I replaced it with, so on paper a lower acquisition/higher operating cost airplane was the better choice. But, I've flown the KA an average of 300 hours per year (double my projections) so my overall costs would have been much better with a pc12.

Personally, I'm slightly more comfortable in a twin than a single but nearly enough to compensate for the big difference in operating cost and depreciation (giant difference!!!).

I am so happy to be surrounded by people that are smarter than me! I've got no regrets, making mistakes is the way I learn best. Congrats!

_________________
John Lockhart
Phoenix, AZ
Ridgway, CO


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 Post subject: Re: PC-12 NG Pirep
PostPosted: 31 Jan 2016, 13:40 
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Joined: 01/16/11
Posts: 11068
Post Likes: +7097
Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Aircraft: PC12NG, G3Tat
Username Protected wrote:
Great write up, Michael. What's your "typical" mission mileage?

The Pilatus keeps making it near the top of our list for next upgrade as we find ourselves bringing more and more people with us. Did you look at any other planes as well? Coming from a TBM I'd image seating for 10 is an off case, did you look at any jets?

Do you miss the speed of the TBM?


Chip, I had very limited time in the TMB850, little less than 30 hours. I never flew it single pilot as I leased time in the airplane. The speed penalty is offset in my opinion with cabin comfort and a potty. I like to stay hydrated whilst flying and don't mind having to go to the head once or twice a flight.

I initially thought about the Caravan and the Kodiak for their simplicity, but I reviewed my travel and I flew cross country and up and down the Eastern seaboard a lot and pressurized speed became a big factor as the price per mile was very comparable.

I looked briefly at the KA200/KA250. In the end it boiled down to either the Commander 1000 (really nice airplane) or the PC12. If the Commander was still in production it would have been a tougher decision.

The PC12 was done right. I hope that they stay humble and keep focusing on building better and better airplanes.

_________________
---Rusty Shoe Keeper---


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 Post subject: Re: PC-12 NG Pirep
PostPosted: 31 Jan 2016, 13:46 
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Joined: 01/16/11
Posts: 11068
Post Likes: +7097
Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Aircraft: PC12NG, G3Tat
Username Protected wrote:
Michael, I am so glad you are happy!!!

I think the KA200 the closest to the PC- 12 in cabin (comfort and seats) and speed. Having sat in both, yours is nicer. The KA costs a more to operate, the PC12 costs more to buy. Initially, I didn't think I'd fly the KA as much since it's faster than the P baron I replaced it with, so on paper a lower acquisition/higher operating cost airplane was the better choice. But, I've flown the KA an average of 300 hours per year (double my projections) so my overall costs would have been much better with a pc12.

Personally, I'm slightly more comfortable in a twin than a single but nearly enough to compensate for the big difference in operating cost and depreciation (giant difference!!!).

I am so happy to be surrounded by people that are smarter than me! I've got no regrets, making mistakes is the way I learn best. Congrats!


John, was just in your neck of the woods for a couple of days but had to work and try learn to snowboard. You also have a sweet ride on that KA of yours and I don't believe you need to trade up for a Jet :D

Operating cost definitely played a part. I knew I would use the airplane a ton (I figure we'll fly about 400 hours this year) and that played into my decision. The safety on both airplanes is very, very good, which was an important part of my decision being that I'm in the air a lot.

The APEX system has been excellent, and if faced with an engine out scenario the dynamic speed bug and good training will hopefully kick in.

After spending some quality time with Shane that mitigated much of my aprehension. The PC12 if glided right has all the info to make it back to an airstrip.

_________________
---Rusty Shoe Keeper---


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 Post subject: Re: PC-12 NG Pirep
PostPosted: 31 Jan 2016, 13:47 
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Joined: 11/09/13
Posts: 1910
Post Likes: +927
Location: KCMA
Aircraft: Aero Commander 980
I will admit to cargo door envy!!

Have the kids named the plane?


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 Post subject: Re: PC-12 NG Pirep
PostPosted: 31 Jan 2016, 13:52 
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Joined: 09/19/09
Posts: 567
Post Likes: +308
Location: Tahoe
Aircraft: Bonanza A36
Chip,
Run a few scenerios with the TBM vs PC12 in fltplan.com, the TBM is faster, but not enough in my opinion. A no wind 800nm trip -->15 minutes faster in the TBM (on ~ 3hr flight).

TBM is great, but doesn't have the utility of a PC12. If you don't need the space, sure save your money and get a TBM. My wife couldn't help gushing over the PC12, the space is a game changer.

Add the PC12's utility, speed together with a 67kt stall speed....damn. If only the seats weren't so upright and had some more cushion to it.

Congrats Michael, have to have a look at when you head out west for surfing.


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 Post subject: Re: PC-12 NG Pirep
PostPosted: 31 Jan 2016, 13:55 
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Joined: 01/16/11
Posts: 11068
Post Likes: +7097
Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Aircraft: PC12NG, G3Tat
Username Protected wrote:
I will admit to cargo door envy!!

Have the kids named the plane?



Yes, they have called her "Penny" :D

Penny the Pilatus

_________________
---Rusty Shoe Keeper---


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 Post subject: Re: PC-12 NG Pirep
PostPosted: 31 Jan 2016, 14:01 
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Joined: 09/16/10
Posts: 9046
Post Likes: +2085
Michael, thanks for posting your experience with the plane! :thumbup:

_________________
Education cuts, don't heal.


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 Post subject: Re: PC-12 NG Pirep
PostPosted: 31 Jan 2016, 14:15 
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Joined: 01/16/11
Posts: 11068
Post Likes: +7097
Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Aircraft: PC12NG, G3Tat
Met up with Matt Rule, who installed our carpet for the extra seats and fixed a few other squawks. Tempus team at APA are great. These people and bags behind us are a normal load. Mother-in-law is not a fan of the altitude so we had an empty seat.

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_________________
---Rusty Shoe Keeper---


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 Post subject: Re: PC-12 NG Pirep
PostPosted: 31 Jan 2016, 14:32 
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Joined: 09/02/09
Posts: 8726
Post Likes: +9456
Company: OAA
Location: Oklahoma City - PWA/Calistoga KSTS
Aircraft: UMF3, UBF 2, P180 II
Username Protected wrote:
I have over 100 hrs now in the PC12 and I figured I'd give my version of a crappy pirep.

After spending way too much time trying to figure out how to haul my brood around the country I finally settled on a 2008 PC12 NG. My mission requirements were to be able to carry 10 folks around (6 of them currently are kids), associated baggage and be able to go at least 1000nm. My next set of requirements were travel related.....I needed (not wanted :D ) to be able to fly to the Bahamas and land on shortish, not always perfectly paved runways.......even though most of the runways in the Bahamas are actually in decent enough shape. The next piece was that I wanted a good autopilot and and a glass cockpit. Personally for me the improved situational awareness that glass brings was important. I'll most probably get flamed for this but I also wanted an airplane that was easy to fly.

I test flew an older /45 and it was much heavier on the controls than the NG. I also wanted a better autopilot and the NG has what I consider to be a very, very good autopilot in the Honeywell Apex system. Even though the NG cost a fair bit more I believe that trued out, it will end up costing less.

What I like:

Plane is incredibly well built. Every piece of it has been well thought out. It was really well designed and built.
It's fairly efficient.....I flight plan about 270 and about 75 gallons the first hour and and about 60 thereafter.
It hauls my whole family and associated baggage (and it does it easily).
It is easy to fly and it's easy to hand fly and trim, although there is no manual trim.
It goes a long way before needing more JetA.
It's fairly efficient down low too, so my options are increased when there are some serious headwinds to fight up high.
It lands damn slow with 40 degrees of flaps.
It's seriously hard to have a bad landing in the airplane.
The cargo door is a winner of note.

The only thing that I don't like about the airplane is the potty.......%#$@ (no pun intended) you'd think they'd have given a little more thought to the crapper. It's too low to the ground, has limited holding capacity and just ain't up to my personal throne expectations. Mine did not come with a PTT in the potty, so I did install one ;)

Twin vs single debate was that I struggled mightily with only having one engine but after reviewing the safety stats on the PC12 (and turbines in general) I felt very comfortable with my chances should the fan quit. What surprised me was how well the airplane glides. It has dual AOA's and given an engine out scenario there are specifics to how to fly to an airport if that is a consideration. At 1,500 a turn back to the field is taught and is easy to do if well trained.

The one thing that I've really come to enjoy, rather surprisingly, is the Honeywell Apex system. I flew the G1000 in the TBM and I have the Aspen w/waas in my Baron coupled to the 530/GMX200. At first I was a little taken aback by the methodology employed on the Apex system, but I love it now. I think that the workload for single pilot is dramatically reduced because of it. A testament to the ease of use, Charlotte, the official captain, likes it better than all other systems she has tried to learn in the past. All that being said Honeywell cannot make the XM metars appear reliably although i hear that version 10 will remedy that.

Friends have asked whether I would choose the PC-12 NG again. For me, with my current mission, the answer is a definitive yes.


Perfection achieved for 35 bucks...

http://i5.walmartimages.com/dfw/dce07b8 ... 0f1.v1.jpg

Tell us more about Charlotte...


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 Post subject: Re: PC-12 NG Pirep
PostPosted: 31 Jan 2016, 14:55 
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Joined: 11/09/13
Posts: 1910
Post Likes: +927
Location: KCMA
Aircraft: Aero Commander 980
Username Protected wrote:
I will admit to cargo door envy!!

Have the kids named the plane?



Yes, they have called her "Penny" :D

Penny the Pilatus


Perfect! I have 4 kids that are older than yours but still on the payroll. They are 16 to 21.

All of them were upset when I sold my 421. They really liked that plane.

Now we are all in the plane together maybe 2 or 3 times a year. I am more likely to have one or two of my kids and then a load of their friends.

Different but still great fun.

Commander like the 421 is perfect for fetching kids from college and getting them back home for a weekend. Usually with some sorority sisters or soon to be frat brothers added at last minute.

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 Post subject: Re: PC-12 NG Pirep
PostPosted: 31 Jan 2016, 15:28 
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Joined: 01/16/11
Posts: 11068
Post Likes: +7097
Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Aircraft: PC12NG, G3Tat
Username Protected wrote:
Perfection achieved for 35 bucks...

http://i5.walmartimages.com/dfw/dce07b8 ... 0f1.v1.jpg

Tell us more about Charlotte...


Heh, heh, funny stuff on the head seat, you read my mind Tony.

Charlotte is my wife and co-pilot. She runs the ship....so to speak.......She made me purchase 'Penny'. She's in the white jacket in picture above.

She can handle routing and radios and what's amazing to me is how much more effective she is at getting route changes.

Steve, I thought long and hard about the Commander. Frigging airplane flies beautifully. It's also seriously capable on one engine. I scratch my head at times and wonder why folks don't resurrect the brand.

_________________
---Rusty Shoe Keeper---


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 Post subject: Re: PC-12 NG Pirep
PostPosted: 31 Jan 2016, 15:40 
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Joined: 09/02/09
Posts: 8726
Post Likes: +9456
Company: OAA
Location: Oklahoma City - PWA/Calistoga KSTS
Aircraft: UMF3, UBF 2, P180 II
Ah! I thought maybe you'd hired a pilot!...

Here's another upgrade for you to consider:

http://www.squattypotty.com

I saw a G5 yesterday that is owned by a guy who had a CJ2+ but wanted a stand up potty. These aviation outhouses can get pretty expensive...

I actually like the way the PC 12 potty is designed. It's clever and a good engineering of the space. And, it's right by the door. Less chance of an unfortunate accident.


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