banner
banner

09 Jun 2025, 15:07 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Garmin International (Banner)



Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: Stupid pilot tricks.
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2015, 02:02 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/17/13
Posts: 6652
Post Likes: +5959
Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Aerostar Superstar 2
It's been almost a year, my Aerostar is now sold and this is behind me, so I thought I'd share probably my closest call. A reminder that it's very easy to get distracted.

I was flying from LA to NY. I'd stopped for fuel in Pueblo, CO and my poor wife-to-be had suffered the cold at FL190 on the way in because I couldn't remember how to use the goddamn Janitrol (as I never use it in CA, and it also scares me). It was an approach to almost minimums into Pueblo, and the ride had been pretty rough over the mountains, so already mood was heightened. Weather on our continued trip to NY was forecast to be even worse, so maybe I was distracted a little by that as well. Fairly new IR pilot and all.

Had just gotten off the phone with Aerostar Owners Association's Ken Bacon on the full rundown on how to operate the heater. Ken told me how to best vent the system after not having used it for for more than a year and he was right - it needed to vent out as it smelled a bit of oil. So I started the heater, taxied to the runup, got my clearance, programmed everything as I kept venting. Then I get release, taxi for takeoff with the door closed, but not latched. I had somehow not double checked when I did checklist, like a total moron. I did the next step, inflate the door (which would turn out to be both my undoing and a blessing) but somehow must have skipped the latching part.

You can figure out the rest.

On rotation my gf says "Adam, door isn't closed". It's semi shut, but not latched. I try to close it, but the seal prevents me from doing so. So stupidly - and not remembering that this was huge sticking point during ground training with Don Smith - I deflate the seal to try to shut it and - wham! - there goes the door. Flings up, cracks the support, breaks the glass. I declare an emergency and turn around, but the sound and the cold shocks me. During my go around I perform pretty bad. The noise, the cold and my fear that door is going to rip off, get into prop, or hit tail, or land on some poor guy on the ground made me reduce power more than I should have. Twice I feel the buffet of the wing and stall onset (no stall warners on Aerostars). On the base to final turn I do the dangerous trick of pushing rudder to tighten turn resulting in a severely skidding turn, slow speed. I get her back on the ground, only extending flaps just before touchdown. I had forgotten that, too. Thankfully, rwy is long at Pueblo.

I was furious at myself for not flying the plane as I should have done. I got slow twice, I forgot flaps, I forced her around with too much rudder low to the ground. All classic mistakes that could have ended badly. The cold, the noise, the fear of the door ripping off all distracted me more than it should have. My dear wife-to-be stayed calm during all of this, thankfully. But I was extra mad at myself for putting her in danger. I was skittish for many days after that, waking up in the middle of the night with cold sweats, having trouble sleeping etc.

Anyway, all ended well, but just in case this should happen to anyone else flying a pressurized Aerostar - don't deflate the seal! It's what kept the door in place, jammed. And don't try to close it in the air! If I hadn't done that and just returned, I would have been OK.

Fly safe out there!

PS. Door had mostly internal damage on locking mechanisms and on window. Thank god the hinges held the door in place. I replaced hinges, window and most of the door interior. A local A&P at Pueblo did a great job getting her fixed up with minimal downtime. Here's a pic after repair.


Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.

_________________
Without love, where would you be now?


Last edited on 27 Dec 2015, 12:24, edited 1 time in total.

Top

 Post subject: Re: Stupid pilot tricks.
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2015, 10:14 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 11/25/11
Posts: 9015
Post Likes: +17217
Location: KGNF, Grenada, MS
Aircraft: Baron, 180,195,J-3
One of the reasons I considered and purchased the A* was because my chosen shop had some experience maintaining an A* previously. That owner had flown the airplane for several years and during his ownership had a similar experience. His door flew open just after a VFR takeoff and he and his passenger just barely survived the ride.

I have said this a hundred times, but I have a "what will kill you" final checklist that is performed after taking the active; no rolling takeoffs for me.

I line up, stop and go through the final, final, checklist: Door latched, controls free and clear, fuel on proper tank, mixture rich/boost on, trim and flaps checked.

I do this with any airplane, even the Cub. An accident report I read years ago started this "caution" where a 10,000 hour B-58 pilot took off with 5 passengers and the controls locked; the end result was 6 deaths.

Proper procedures and adherence thereto should be our only option; just read the Gulfstream accident thread hereon.

Jgreen

_________________
Waste no time with fools. They have nothing to lose.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Stupid pilot tricks.
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2015, 10:24 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/28/13
Posts: 6214
Post Likes: +4239
Location: Indiana
Aircraft: C195, D17S, M20TN
Thanks for sharing Adam... Whew.

I like the final, final check list too John.

_________________
Chuck
KEVV


Top

 Post subject: Re: Stupid pilot tricks.
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2015, 10:53 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 09/04/10
Posts: 3536
Post Likes: +3228
Aircraft: C55, PC-12
Wow, thanks for sharing this. Hopefully we can all learn without having to experience this.

_________________
John Lockhart
Phoenix, AZ
Ridgway, CO


Top

 Post subject: Re: Stupid pilot tricks.
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2015, 11:14 
Online



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 10/05/11
Posts: 10044
Post Likes: +7094
Company: Hausch LLC, rep. Power/mation
Location: Milwaukee, WI (KMKE)
Aircraft: 1963 Debonair B33
I might wager a guess that the foundation of a safety culture is sharing your mistakes with others.

_________________
Be Nice


Top

 Post subject: Re: Stupid pilot tricks.
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2015, 12:38 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/29/14
Posts: 8383
Post Likes: +5334
Location: Brunswick, Ga
Aircraft: PA32RT-300T
Do you have a pic of the damage?


Top

 Post subject: Re: Stupid pilot tricks.
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2015, 12:41 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/17/13
Posts: 6652
Post Likes: +5959
Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Aerostar Superstar 2
Username Protected wrote:
Do you have a pic of the damage?


No I don't. I was a bit too shaken up to take any. But you couldn't see much anyway except for cracked glass. Door had warped and inner part had separated from outer skin.

_________________
Without love, where would you be now?


Top

 Post subject: Re: Stupid pilot tricks.
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2015, 12:53 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 11/25/11
Posts: 9015
Post Likes: +17217
Location: KGNF, Grenada, MS
Aircraft: Baron, 180,195,J-3
Username Protected wrote:
I might wager a guess that the foundation of a safety culture is sharing your mistakes with others.


I took off in a Skylane one time, flew 500 miles and landed to a smirky line boy walking up to my door saying, "Well, don't suppose we will need a tow bar, you brought yours."

Yea, I did it. :doh:

Jgreen

_________________
Waste no time with fools. They have nothing to lose.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Stupid pilot tricks.
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2015, 13:10 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 05/06/14
Posts: 7060
Post Likes: +8494
Company: The French Tradition
Location: KCRQ - Carlsbad - KTOA
Aircraft: 89 A36 TN, 78 Tiger
Username Protected wrote:
I might wager a guess that the foundation of a safety culture is sharing your mistakes with others.


I took off in a Skylane one time, flew 500 miles and landed to a smirky line boy walking up to my door saying, "Well, don't suppose we will need a tow bar, you brought yours."

Yea, I did it. :doh:

Jgreen


:ohno:

Talk about lucky....
_________________
Bonanza 89 A36 Turbo Norm
Grumman Tiger 78


Top

 Post subject: Re: Stupid pilot tricks.
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2015, 13:34 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/16/07
Posts: 18574
Post Likes: +28632
Company: Real Estate development
Location: Addison -North Dallas(ADS), Texas
Aircraft: In between
Thanks for sharing. We've all over looked something over the years; hopefully, nothing critical.

_________________
Dave Siciliano, ATP


Top

 Post subject: Re: Stupid pilot tricks.
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2015, 13:38 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 08/03/10
Posts: 1561
Post Likes: +1809
Company: D&M Leasing Houston
Location: Katy, TX (KTME)
Aircraft: CitationV/C180
I flew my travel air from Houston to Cape Girrado without topping off because I was sure I had enough fuel based my memory and using 20 GPH as a guide. 15 miles out, right engine quit. Had airport in sight and was already talking to the tower. Feathered engine, landed and taxied on the left. If memory serves me, 106 was usable on that plane. Gas receipt said 104 gallons when I topped off.....

Dumb luck I had the airport and it was vfr.

Didn't do much for my wife's already heightened fear of flying.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Stupid pilot tricks.
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2015, 14:34 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 01/31/09
Posts: 5193
Post Likes: +3032
Location: Northern NJ
Aircraft: SR22;CJ2+;C510
I have had doors pop open in Bonanzas and Pipers. I have never been able to close them properly in flight.

My rule now is I don't even try. Door pop open I just tell the tower I need to stay in the pattern or do an approach back and land.

I have continued a flight in a Piper where the top latch was open and the other closed. More wind noise then normal and no one was in the right seat.

_________________
Allen


Top

 Post subject: Re: Stupid pilot tricks.
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2015, 14:38 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 01/19/10
Posts: 350
Post Likes: +157
Location: NY
Aircraft: C310R
Username Protected wrote:
I might wager a guess that the foundation of a safety culture is sharing your mistakes with others.


I took off in a Skylane one time, flew 500 miles and landed to a smirky line boy walking up to my door saying, "Well, don't suppose we will need a tow bar, you brought yours."

Yea, I did it. :doh:

Jgreen


:coffee:

I'm glad you're okay, Adam

Top

 Post subject: Re: Stupid pilot tricks.
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2015, 14:41 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/17/13
Posts: 6652
Post Likes: +5959
Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Aerostar Superstar 2
The Aerostar clamshell door is great on the ground, as you can keep it open as you taxi and cool down. But in the air, it's a different thing. The air load will actually fling it open if it's slightly cracked, not close it like on normal doors.

I remember reading about a Citation XLS last year where the clamshell door flung open. They landed safely, but must have been pretty upsetting for the passengers at 300+kts...

_________________
Without love, where would you be now?


Top

 Post subject: Re: Stupid pilot tricks.
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2015, 15:02 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 20305
Post Likes: +25442
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
I have had doors pop open in Bonanzas and Pipers. I have never been able to close them properly in flight.

My rule now is I don't even try. Door pop open I just tell the tower I need to stay in the pattern or do an approach back and land.

I concur.

The first instinct is to try and fix the problem. That is usually the WRONG thing. I've read so many accounts of pilots getting into trouble worrying about the problem that they create a new and much more serious other problem instead. The KVNY Citation crash comes to mind, unlatched nose baggage door.

So I resolve that if a door pops open or something of similar ilk, I'm ignoring it and focusing entirely on my landing.

Mike C.

_________________
Email mikec (at) ciholas.com


Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next



B-Kool (Top/Bottom Banner)

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2025

.blackwell-85x50.png.
.airmart-85x150.png.
.bullardaviation-85x50-2.jpg.
.midwest2.jpg.
.garmin-85x200-2021-11-22.jpg.
.puremedical-85x200.jpg.
.kingairnation-85x50.png.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.b-kool-85x50.png.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.aerox_85x100.png.
.tempest.jpg.
.CiESVer2.jpg.
.Latitude.jpg.
.concorde.jpg.
.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.
.OAS 85x50.png.
.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.wat-85x50.jpg.
.KalAir_Black.jpg.
.headsetsetc_Small_85x50.jpg.
.daytona.jpg.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.KingAirMaint85_50.png.
.shortnnumbers-85x100.png.
.ocraviation-85x50.png.
.dbm.jpg.
.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.holymicro-85x50.jpg.
.ssv-85x50-2023-12-17.jpg.
.boomerang-85x50-2023-12-17.png.
.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.centex-85x50.jpg.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.
.mcfarlane-85x50.png.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.wilco-85x100.png.
.rnp.85x50.png.
.saint-85x50.jpg.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.Wingman 85x50.png.
.SCA.jpg.
.tat-85x100.png.
.performanceaero-85x50.jpg.
.camguard.jpg.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.Elite-85x50.png.