I'm starting a flying club. This is purely an altruistic hobby exercise for me. I've got a fairly deep well of people interested in flying who could get engaged with minimal prompting.

Looking for an airplane that can live outdoors and be operated long-term at minimum cost. It needs to lift 450lbs of people and three hours fuel to dry tanks. Target airplane is a Cherokee 140/150/160 with a mid-time engine. High total time desirable.

The 172 options seem to be modestly more expensive for apples to apples comparison. Setting aside a really great deal (eg airworthy musketeer for $8K) is there anything that will meet or equal a Cherokee for this mission?

May I suggest a Cessna 150? There was recently a great deal on one here in the for sale section!

Seriously, good thing about using a Cherokee is that the students get used to dealing with fuel pumps from the get go. I did my private in a Cherokee and enjoyed the aircraft.

LOL. I considered that. No, the 150 is short on interior space, useful load and power for Mississippi people in the Mississippi summer.

High wing plane will be marginally cooler in the summer down there. And the door windows open during ground op's make it even nicer. Not nice, just nicer.

While a 172 is more expensive I see few pros in your scenario

1) larger people often find it easier to climb into a 172 then roll in and out of a Cherokee. In my opinion, if adult students are uncomfortable it hinders the learning process. (Under 30 seem not to care)
2) the high wing gives more shade and therefore cooler on hot days
3) as the defacto GA trainer people feel comfortable with flying a 172 anywhere they go. For low time pilots having familiar systems is very helpful. (Visiting somewhere for a trip go rent a 172 at the nearest airport)
4) if you want to get rid of it for something else it is the most liquid trainer airplane

So while while costlier it does have a few advantages in certain situations

Baah, the whole door opens on the Cherokee. You just need to brief your "air conditioner" on when to open and close it. As a child, that role fell to me. The rules were simple and once trained I was quite autonomous:

• If Weight On Wheels = TRUE AND Runway_Departure<> TRUE THEN Door_OPEN=1 ELSE Door_OPEN=0

That big old door makes an excellent speed brake to augment the nose held aloft on roll-out.

Flight school at our airport has used Cherokees forever. Right now, four (or is it five)140's, one 180... also one 172 for the diehard Cessna renters. Lower aquisition cost is the reason for Piper versus Cessna. The 140's will get upgraded to a climb prop and 160 horsepower at first engine overhaul.

I can't.

TCO including ease of resale, it's hard to imagine beating a PA28.

If you're favoring low acquisition with the assumption that the end-game is an insurance-totalled airframe or scrapping/parting out, the Musketeers might give it a run for the money. Mice are harder to land and make "more honest" pilots, but when I ran a C23, PA28, and C172s all at the same flight school, it was only the C23 that made a grown man cry on the eve of his checkride and hang up flying forever -- after bouncing down the runway 7 times and nearly folding the nose gear..

It depends on the "personality" of your club pilots I think whether they can tolerate oddball planes.

A BE77 or PA-38 might also work in this scenario if your pilots favor training/certificates more than going places. Bigger than a 150 inside. Also 2 doors. Look cooler. Savings on fuel and 2400TBO engines. Skippers are rare, Tomahawks are hated, so I think both belong in the "low acquisition, low chance of disposition" category with the Mice. I'd favor the PA38 in this case since Skippers are fetching outsized dollars lately -- unless I found a deal on one.

Cherokee 180.
It can do everything a 140-160 does plus a LOT more.
You want less Consumption ? Pull throttle back
You want to carry more? You can
My useful load is 1115.

If it is for learning get one with a STOL kit for even more options.

Martin

Charles,

There is a Musketeer based here that is owned by Dr. Joe Roberts. it was his father's airplane and when the gentleman died, Joe had it brought here "for keeping". He is not a pilot and has actually asked friend of mine to fly it for him to keep it oiled. The friend declined as he just didn't want any liability.

Joe is a practical man, for a doctor that is , and I think he would be open to "something".

The airplane is rotting away, but I don't think it is too late. It has been hangared the entire time it was here.

And don't you doctors take offense , it was just the perfect opening . Besides Charles is a doctor or claims to be. All I ever see him do is fly.

Jgreen

The other option is to buy a Citabria that can be used as a trainer but also offers to option to fly a loop or two.

Citabria requires a hangar. That ups my costs substantially. John- I'll be in touch.

I have a 140 with the 160hp engine upgrade. It’s a great plane for learning and Saturday afternoon flights. Fill it to the tabs and you get 3 ½ hours and 650 lbs of passengers. If you have two tall people, it is a two person plane. If everyone is short, say under 5' 11', then it is a four person plane.

Insurance for five guys in a club-like arrangement (everyone is a named insured with no right of subrogation) is $693 per year. I spent a lot of money on mine when I first got it in 2008 and now spend less than $500 per year on fixing things. I got lucky this year and only had to replace two bolts for 70¢. Last year I had to replace a bunch of hoses that had timed out and it was around $750. The year before that it was the beacon for around $1,000. The year before that the only thing that needed replaced was the battery.

The plane is extremely easy to fly and is comfortable for three or four hour flights.

The being said, I would not get a 140 if you plan to do much flying outside of the immediate area. You can get a Cherokee 180 that has more room for passengers, has a baggage compartment, climbs better, and is faster. Operating costs are similar.

I’ve never flown 172 so I don’t know how it handles, but it has the wings on the right side, so that’s a plus.