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 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2015, 10:35 
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Username Protected wrote:
Yes we did add strakes. Winglets were on the bird when we bought it. The strakes are an easy 8-10kts. Hubcaps probably 3kts but 100fpm climb. I believe the hubcaps are most effective at higher angles of attack.

What was amazing is the descent when we added the strakes. Before strakes coming out of the flight levels we left power at cruise and dialed in 1600fpm descent on the 55X (max on the 55X). That would give us about 210 indicated. Once the strakes were on, we were bucking up against redline. That's proof positive of their effectiveness.

The pilot that flew it out to Colorado Springs to have the strakes installed famously said "I get it now, the faster you go the faster it goes!" We never let him live that down.

There is something about doing 210ktas on 36~38 gph on long trips. We don't use the aux tank anymore, can't sit in it that long. Well I could but don't want to. Now if the dog could just handle the rudder pedals.

Excellent info Tim, thanks!

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Jack Stull


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 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2015, 12:29 
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Joined: 10/04/14
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Company: Take Flight Avaition.
Location: Franklin, TN
Aircraft: Piper PA46 Jet Prop
Looking at what an average annual costs for a 421 and for the 414.


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 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2015, 12:41 
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Location: Concord , CA (KCCR)
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For a good plane that has been maintained well with no major issues, about 7,000.
My first annual was 60,000 and the rest have been 7,000 to 10,000.


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 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2015, 20:58 
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Our plane was a true project plane. What's an annual again, right! Each annual so far has had catchup. Last year we took it to Tony Saxton, the squawk list was long. New windshield, ouch plus nits and nats only Tony can find.

The first two annuals were $30,000 with things that needed catching up and deferrals that were not safety of flight. Then to Tony when we thought we had it right. We knew a windshield was probably going to be mandated, it was. The list Tony came up with after those first two catchup annuals with windshield was another $30,000.

This year we brought the plane to the Cessna Service Center at Orlando Exec. We know one uplock bracket needs attention maybe were mis-installed who knows and one starter adapter is out of tolerance. Word to the wise don't get them from Continental. Also fuel setup needs attention as it should at every annual. Another word to the wise, fuel setup on a 421 needs someone with the right equipment and technique. This annual I expect at about $15,000. That uplock bracket surprised me as they were new 3 years ago.

So 4 annuals on a project plane $105,000 total. There should not be too many catchup items in the future as we've replaced almost everything with new or overhauled, heater, a/c and so they said the last new evaporator in captivity and so on.

We bought this bird really right and knew about what we were walking into. We put 250 hours a year on it, new paint, interior, glass panel, auto-pilot, GAMI's, props, engines (now 850 hours). The list keeps getting shorter. Probably do hoses next year. Maybe throttle quadrant cables the year after.

This plane turns 40 next year and someone is going to get a good one when my flying days are done.


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 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2015, 21:53 
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Joined: 11/06/10
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Username Protected wrote:
For a good plane that has been maintained well with no major issues, about 7,000.
My first annual was 60,000 and the rest have been 7,000 to 10,000.


But $60K in aviation dollars 50 years ago translate to how much now? :-D

Tim (ducking before he gets Beech slapped)


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 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2015, 00:38 
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Company: ARC Group Medical
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Aircraft: 1976 Bonanza V35TN
Username Protected wrote:
Our plane was a true project plane. What's an annual again, right! Each annual so far has had catchup. Last year we took it to Tony Saxton, the squawk list was long. New windshield, ouch plus nits and nats only Tony can find.

The first two annuals were $30,000 with things that needed catching up and deferrals that were not safety of flight. Then to Tony when we thought we had it right. We knew a windshield was probably going to be mandated, it was. The list Tony came up with after those first two catchup annuals with windshield was another $30,000.

This year we brought the plane to the Cessna Service Center at Orlando Exec. We know one uplock bracket needs attention maybe were mis-installed who knows and one starter adapter is out of tolerance. Word to the wise don't get them from Continental. Also fuel setup needs attention as it should at every annual. Another word to the wise, fuel setup on a 421 needs someone with the right equipment and technique. This annual I expect at about $15,000. That uplock bracket surprised me as they were new 3 years ago.

So 4 annuals on a project plane $105,000 total. There should not be too many catchup items in the future as we've replaced almost everything with new or overhauled, heater, a/c and so they said the last new evaporator in captivity and so on.

We bought this bird really right and knew about what we were walking into. We put 250 hours a year on it, new paint, interior, glass panel, auto-pilot, GAMI's, props, engines (now 850 hours). The list keeps getting shorter. Probably do hoses next year. Maybe throttle quadrant cables the year after.

This plane turns 40 next year and someone is going to get a good one when my flying days are done.


Tim,
What was the name of the Cessna service center in Orlando that you used? Also would you recommend them? How well did they set up your fuel system?

Tony

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Former GenX Bonanza owner.... now flying the 421 Golden Turkey


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 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2015, 23:06 
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Location: Vero Beach, FL
Aircraft: C310R, E55P, H130T2
Username Protected wrote:
Our plane was a true project plane. What's an annual again, right! Each annual so far has had catchup. Last year we took it to Tony Saxton, the squawk list was long. New windshield, ouch plus nits and nats only Tony can find.

The first two annuals were $30,000 with things that needed catching up and deferrals that were not safety of flight. Then to Tony when we thought we had it right. We knew a windshield was probably going to be mandated, it was. The list Tony came up with after those first two catchup annuals with windshield was another $30,000.

This year we brought the plane to the Cessna Service Center at Orlando Exec. We know one uplock bracket needs attention maybe were mis-installed who knows and one starter adapter is out of tolerance. Word to the wise don't get them from Continental. Also fuel setup needs attention as it should at every annual. Another word to the wise, fuel setup on a 421 needs someone with the right equipment and technique. This annual I expect at about $15,000. That uplock bracket surprised me as they were new 3 years ago.

So 4 annuals on a project plane $105,000 total. There should not be too many catchup items in the future as we've replaced almost everything with new or overhauled, heater, a/c and so they said the last new evaporator in captivity and so on.

We bought this bird really right and knew about what we were walking into. We put 250 hours a year on it, new paint, interior, glass panel, auto-pilot, GAMI's, props, engines (now 850 hours). The list keeps getting shorter. Probably do hoses next year. Maybe throttle quadrant cables the year after.

This plane turns 40 next year and someone is going to get a good one when my flying days are done.


Tim,
What was the name of the Cessna service center in Orlando that you used? Also would you recommend them? How well did they set up your fuel system?

Tony


Tony - my A&P in Vero Beach can do this and can rig the landing gear on the 300/400 Cessna if you have the electric gear. He has quite a bit of Twin Cessna experience and currently maintains a 421C, and my 310R. PM me if you want his name otherwise I can point you in the direction of a few other shops with TC experience recommended by others on the TC forum.

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 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 27 May 2018, 10:41 
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After reading 19 pages of this old but fantastic thread, I am still on the fence between a 340 or 421... :doh: The 340 makes more sense based on the profile, 2 to 4 (sometimes 6) passengers doing 100-400 mile trips with a few 1200 miles thrown in throughout the year. Operating costs are similar. Acquisition costs seem close. What does a 340 do significantly better when compared with the 421? Looks and fitting in a standard hangar aside. Help :sad:


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 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 27 May 2018, 10:53 
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What does a 340 do significantly better when compared with the 421?

Burn a little less fuel, cost a little less to operate.

421 is bigger cabin, quieter, and with the C model, much simpler fuel and landing gear system.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 27 May 2018, 12:31 
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No contest, get the 421.


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 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 27 May 2018, 12:44 
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Joined: 08/20/09
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Aircraft: C441, RV7A
Either could be more expensive than the other. Don't get suckered into a cheap one with questionable maintenance history.
If you're hauling 6 very often definitely go with the 421.

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Jack Stull


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 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 27 May 2018, 14:02 
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Joined: 12/19/11
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Aircraft: 2004 SR22 G2
Anthony, if you ever intend to carry six, then the decision is easy - 421. The C340 is a comfy 5 seater and most owners I know have the 6th seat removed and when I flew one I did the same. Ingress and egress is very difficult with the 6th seat installed.

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Don Coburn
Corporate Expense Reduction Specialist
2004 SR22 G2


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 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 27 May 2018, 14:45 
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Anthony, if you ever intend to carry six, then the decision is easy - 421. The C340 is a comfy 5 seater and most owners I know have the 6th seat removed and when I flew one I did the same. Ingress and egress is very difficult with the 6th seat installed.

:werd:

My 340 was a great machine for my family of four when my kids were pre-teen. I had 200 gal fuel and full fuel payload of 600 lbs. I took the 6th seat out and never had an occasion to put it in.

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-Jon C.


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 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 27 May 2018, 19:17 
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No contest, get the 421.


There’s a good one for sale on Controller. Can be had for a song.

Sorry, I don’t know how to clean up links.

https://www.controller.com/listings/air ... essna-421c


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 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 27 May 2018, 20:28 
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No brainer... 421C

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