banner
banner

29 Mar 2024, 07:33 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Concorde Battery (banner)



Reply to topic  [ 561 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27 ... 38  Next
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2018, 07:15 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 09/05/09
Posts: 4082
Post Likes: +2731
Location: Small Town, NC
Username Protected wrote:
Capital cost can vary a lot between the two. A really nice 340 can be more than a average 421.


yes. mine was.

_________________
"Find worthy causes in your life."


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2018, 08:46 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 08/20/09
Posts: 2395
Post Likes: +1858
Company: Jcrane, Inc.
Location: KVES Greenville, OH
Aircraft: C441, RV7A
Username Protected wrote:
Marquise is 2" wider and 3" longer... :shrug:

There is definitely some sketchy info online. I think you're comparing the instrument panel to rear bulkhead distance in the 421 to the cabin size of the MU2. I've spent significant time in both aircraft and owned a Marquise for 4 years and can guarantee they are NOT about the same size inside.

The Marquise cabin is slightly larger than the Conquest II and about 10% smaller than a B200.

You're right, I was wrong. Marquise is 5' longer, that's significant.
_________________
Jack Stull


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2018, 08:59 
Online


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/29/10
Posts: 2528
Post Likes: +2187
Location: Dallas, TX (KADS & KJWY)
Aircraft: T28B,7GCBC,E90
Username Protected wrote:
Broken nose gear link puts the plane on the nose, gear repair, fuselage repair, two props, and two engines. Ask Robert Johnson who had that happen.


Mike, I'm calling foul on this one. That was an insurance event and while it cost the insurance company more than $75k it sure didn't cost me that much.

You're making a lot of good arguments about kerosene vs 100LL, so don't muddy the waters by bringing my incident into the fray please!

Robert


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 09 Jun 2018, 00:44 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 02/09/09
Posts: 5552
Post Likes: +2504
Location: Owosso, MI (KRNP)
Aircraft: 1969 Bonanza V35A
The difference between a turbine and a piston engine can become more appearently during an insurance claim than scheduled maintenance. For example, the C-441 that I manage took a lightning strike a couple months ago. Insurance paid the ~$80k for the prop overhauls, both engine R&R, and gearbox tear downs. The problem becomes, are there any service bulletins due? We operate under part 91, so the $5000 per engine service bulletin isn’t mandatory, but we’ll take a $30k hit per engine if we ever sell. We had 2300 hours left to TBO where we would have it complied with anyways. We got away “lucky...”

The underwriter”s claims adjuster told me a story about a recent King Air that he handled. The owner appearently did no, or a poor prebuy. When the engine was torn down for the claim, it cost the owner over $160k out of his pocket to repair the cooked engine. Obviously, the shop would not have repaired then engine with the damaged parts.

No Continental engine will cost that much extra. I can afford an engine on a Twin Cessna, or even my Aerostar if it’s destroyed withsome pain, but a $160k out of pocket paints me (and most) into a difficult corner.

I spent a lot of time looking for this C-441. I’m glad we didn’t buy some of the others we looked at (12 total) as the recovery from the lack of record keeping would have killed us. Even a popular record system like Weststars missed 15+ inspections that we found during prebuy.

Jason


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 09 Jun 2018, 12:35 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/29/09
Posts: 4693
Post Likes: +2403
Company: retired corporate mostly
Location: Chico,California KCIC/CL56
Aircraft: 1956 Champion 7EC
Quote:
The difference between a turbine and a piston engine can become more.....


Since we drifted a little...

We had an engine grenade on a B200 15 years ago. The CT disk broke at cruise. The overhauler and the manufacturer shared responsibility and would have found a used engine in their stock with similar times to ours, and swapped out.
But, they didn't have any in stock, so they sent us a brand new 3600 hour engine and a bill for the time we had used on all our rotables. (sp?)
Total cost.... 385,000 dollars.

:btt:

_________________
Jeff

soloed in a land of Superhomers/1959 Cessna 150, retired with Proline 21/ CJ4.


Last edited on 09 Jun 2018, 14:11, edited 1 time in total.

Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 09 Jun 2018, 13:10 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 19252
Post Likes: +23615
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
Total cost.... 385,000 AMU...

If 1 AMU = $1K, that's $385M. Hmm.

Note that the airplane value did go up with a new 0 SMOH engine. The frequency of such events is extremely low.

Mike C.

_________________
Email mikec (at) ciholas.com


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 09 Jun 2018, 14:10 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/29/09
Posts: 4693
Post Likes: +2403
Company: retired corporate mostly
Location: Chico,California KCIC/CL56
Aircraft: 1956 Champion 7EC
Quote:
Total cost.... 385,000 AMU...


Correction.... (wish I flew an MU2...stuff like this wouldn't happen)
:oops:
385 AMU.

But 385,000 AMU makes a better story.

_________________
Jeff

soloed in a land of Superhomers/1959 Cessna 150, retired with Proline 21/ CJ4.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 09 Jun 2018, 16:29 
Offline




User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/10/07
Posts: 30432
Post Likes: +10539
Location: Minneapolis, MN (KFCM)
Aircraft: 1970 Baron B55
Username Protected wrote:
Quote:
Total cost.... 385,000 AMU...


Correction.... (wish I flew an MU2...stuff like this wouldn't happen)
:oops:
385 AMU.

But 385,000 AMU makes a better story.

I don't know about "better" but it was indeed scarier :hide: !

_________________
-lance

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 09 Jun 2018, 17:17 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 07/24/14
Posts: 1754
Post Likes: +2213
Username Protected wrote:
Total cost.... 385,000 AMU...

If 1 AMU = $1K, that's $385M. Hmm.

Note that the airplane value did go up with a new 0 SMOH engine. The frequency of such events is extremely low.

Mike C.

You can buy a whole MU2 in decent condition with reasonable time remaining on the engines for $385 AMU!
_________________
Jay


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 12 Jun 2018, 07:11 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 08/30/13
Posts: 409
Post Likes: +71
Company: Cruce Aircraft Services
Location: KPGD
Aircraft: Learjet 55, C-310
What sort of cruise burns do you see at 180kts in a 421b? 200kts seems to be 34-36LOP?


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 12 Jun 2018, 10:08 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 11/08/12
Posts: 12798
Post Likes: +5224
Location: Jackson, MS (KHKS)
Aircraft: 1961 Cessna 172
Username Protected wrote:
What sort of cruise burns do you see at 180kts in a 421b? 200kts seems to be 34-36LOP?


I could get down to about 30gph getting ~180 kts in the teens.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 12 Jun 2018, 11:05 
Online


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/29/10
Posts: 2528
Post Likes: +2187
Location: Dallas, TX (KADS & KJWY)
Aircraft: T28B,7GCBC,E90
Username Protected wrote:
What sort of cruise burns do you see at 180kts in a 421b? 200kts seems to be 34-36LOP?


I could get down to about 30gph getting ~180 kts in the teens.


I'm normally 40-42gph in the low 20's doing 210-215 ROP (in a C model).

Robert

Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2018, 20:34 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 11/06/11
Posts: 465
Post Likes: +129
Company: Southwest Airlines
Location: KGEU
Aircraft: Baron E-55
Hello 421 flyers,

It has been a little while since I have posted, but I have been lurking.

I just flew my E-55 baron back from Arizona where I have it annualed.

My mechanic has not billed me yet. He said he would go on vacation first, and bill me after he gets back from his vacation with his family.

He is going to Hawaii. :bugeye:

Hmmm.....



On to the subject at hand.

I have continued looking at the 421's posted on controller and trade-a-plane.

Many have continued on sale with continuing falling prices.

Many that were suggested as possible good aircraft continue to remain for sale, for years now in some cases, with falling prices.

Many Late 421 B models are now around the $100K range, some with low to mid time engines. Same with some early 421 C models that are now at or below the $ 150 K range.

Any thoughts on any of these particular aircraft.

Are any or you familiar with any of these aircraft or there owners.

I still may pull the trigger someday. Especially as these prices keep falling.



And yes, I am cognizant of the maintenance cost, but I have a great set of mechanics and have been in discussions with them about another aircraft like this.



Thanks,



:cheers:


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2018, 20:50 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 08/03/08
Posts: 16179
Post Likes: +8782
Location: 2W5
Aircraft: A36
If I was your mechanic, I would encourage you too ;-)


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2018, 20:51 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/17/13
Posts: 6322
Post Likes: +5522
Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
Unfortunately, just the way it is these days. I took a beating on my Aerostar and I see no light in the tunnel for twins. Some say they've increased a little in price, but not so sure when it comes to actual selling prices. A guy on here had his Aerostar 700 Superstar down to $99K. I remember how these planes started at $300K+ before 2008....

Probably as good a time as ever to pull a trigger on a 421B/C... :thumbup:

_________________
Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.


Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 561 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27 ... 38  Next




You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2024

.Latitude.jpg.
.ssv-85x50-2023-12-17.jpg.
.tempest.jpg.
.kingairacademy-85x100.png.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.blackwell-85x50.png.
.Marsh.jpg.
.avfab-85x50-2018-12-04.png.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.airmart-85x150.png.
.one-mile-up-85x100.png.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.camguard.jpg.
.aeroled-85x50-2022-12-06.jpg.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.
.aircraftferry-85x50.jpg.
.CiESVer2.jpg.
.midwest2.jpg.
.shortnnumbers-85x100.png.
.SCA.jpg.
.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.
.lucysaviation-85x50.png.
.Wingman 85x50.png.
.pure-medical-85x150.png.
.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.Genesys_85x50.jpg.
.avionwealth-85x50.png.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.concorde.jpg.
.dbm.jpg.
.headsetsetc_Small_85x50.jpg.
.kingairnation-85x50.png.
.wat-85x50.jpg.
.bullardaviation-85x50-2.jpg.
.Foreflight_85x50_color.png.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.Rocky-Mountain-Turbine-85x100.jpg.
.chairmanaviation-85x50.jpg.
.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.saint-85x50.jpg.
.cav-85x50.jpg.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.AAI.jpg.
.ei-85x150.jpg.
.wilco-85x100.png.
.boomerang-85x50-2023-12-17.png.
.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.daytona.jpg.
.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.aircraftassociates-85x50.png.
.tat-85x100.png.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.centex-85x50.jpg.