28 Mar 2024, 22:39 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421 Posted: 08 Jun 2018, 07:15 |
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Joined: 09/05/09 Posts: 4082 Post Likes: +2731 Location: Small Town, NC
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Username Protected wrote: Capital cost can vary a lot between the two. A really nice 340 can be more than a average 421. yes. mine was.
_________________ "Find worthy causes in your life."
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Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421 Posted: 08 Jun 2018, 08:46 |
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Joined: 08/20/09 Posts: 2395 Post Likes: +1858 Company: Jcrane, Inc. Location: KVES Greenville, OH
Aircraft: C441, RV7A
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Username Protected wrote: Marquise is 2" wider and 3" longer... There is definitely some sketchy info online. I think you're comparing the instrument panel to rear bulkhead distance in the 421 to the cabin size of the MU2. I've spent significant time in both aircraft and owned a Marquise for 4 years and can guarantee they are NOT about the same size inside. The Marquise cabin is slightly larger than the Conquest II and about 10% smaller than a B200. You're right, I was wrong. Marquise is 5' longer, that's significant.
_________________ Jack Stull
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Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421 Posted: 08 Jun 2018, 08:59 |
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Joined: 12/29/10 Posts: 2528 Post Likes: +2186 Location: Dallas, TX (KADS & KJWY)
Aircraft: T28B,7GCBC,E90
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Username Protected wrote: Broken nose gear link puts the plane on the nose, gear repair, fuselage repair, two props, and two engines. Ask Robert Johnson who had that happen.
Mike, I'm calling foul on this one. That was an insurance event and while it cost the insurance company more than $75k it sure didn't cost me that much. You're making a lot of good arguments about kerosene vs 100LL, so don't muddy the waters by bringing my incident into the fray please! Robert
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Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421 Posted: 09 Jun 2018, 00:44 |
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Joined: 02/09/09 Posts: 5551 Post Likes: +2503 Location: Owosso, MI (KRNP)
Aircraft: 1969 Bonanza V35A
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The difference between a turbine and a piston engine can become more appearently during an insurance claim than scheduled maintenance. For example, the C-441 that I manage took a lightning strike a couple months ago. Insurance paid the ~$80k for the prop overhauls, both engine R&R, and gearbox tear downs. The problem becomes, are there any service bulletins due? We operate under part 91, so the $5000 per engine service bulletin isn’t mandatory, but we’ll take a $30k hit per engine if we ever sell. We had 2300 hours left to TBO where we would have it complied with anyways. We got away “lucky...”
The underwriter”s claims adjuster told me a story about a recent King Air that he handled. The owner appearently did no, or a poor prebuy. When the engine was torn down for the claim, it cost the owner over $160k out of his pocket to repair the cooked engine. Obviously, the shop would not have repaired then engine with the damaged parts.
No Continental engine will cost that much extra. I can afford an engine on a Twin Cessna, or even my Aerostar if it’s destroyed withsome pain, but a $160k out of pocket paints me (and most) into a difficult corner.
I spent a lot of time looking for this C-441. I’m glad we didn’t buy some of the others we looked at (12 total) as the recovery from the lack of record keeping would have killed us. Even a popular record system like Weststars missed 15+ inspections that we found during prebuy.
Jason
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Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421 Posted: 09 Jun 2018, 12:35 |
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Joined: 01/29/09 Posts: 4693 Post Likes: +2403 Company: retired corporate mostly Location: Chico,California KCIC/CL56
Aircraft: 1956 Champion 7EC
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Quote: The difference between a turbine and a piston engine can become more..... Since we drifted a little... We had an engine grenade on a B200 15 years ago. The CT disk broke at cruise. The overhauler and the manufacturer shared responsibility and would have found a used engine in their stock with similar times to ours, and swapped out. But, they didn't have any in stock, so they sent us a brand new 3600 hour engine and a bill for the time we had used on all our rotables. (sp?) Total cost.... 385,000 dollars.
_________________ Jeff
soloed in a land of Superhomers/1959 Cessna 150, retired with Proline 21/ CJ4.
Last edited on 09 Jun 2018, 14:11, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421 Posted: 09 Jun 2018, 13:10 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23613 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: Total cost.... 385,000 AMU... If 1 AMU = $1K, that's $385M. Hmm. Note that the airplane value did go up with a new 0 SMOH engine. The frequency of such events is extremely low. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421 Posted: 09 Jun 2018, 14:10 |
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Joined: 01/29/09 Posts: 4693 Post Likes: +2403 Company: retired corporate mostly Location: Chico,California KCIC/CL56
Aircraft: 1956 Champion 7EC
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Quote: Total cost.... 385,000 AMU... Correction.... (wish I flew an MU2...stuff like this wouldn't happen) 385 AMU. But 385,000 AMU makes a better story.
_________________ Jeff
soloed in a land of Superhomers/1959 Cessna 150, retired with Proline 21/ CJ4.
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Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421 Posted: 09 Jun 2018, 16:29 |
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Joined: 12/10/07 Posts: 30427 Post Likes: +10535 Location: Minneapolis, MN (KFCM)
Aircraft: 1970 Baron B55
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Username Protected wrote: Quote: Total cost.... 385,000 AMU... Correction.... (wish I flew an MU2...stuff like this wouldn't happen) 385 AMU. But 385,000 AMU makes a better story. I don't know about "better" but it was indeed scarier !
_________________ -lance
It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
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Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421 Posted: 09 Jun 2018, 17:17 |
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Joined: 07/24/14 Posts: 1754 Post Likes: +2213
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Username Protected wrote: Total cost.... 385,000 AMU... If 1 AMU = $1K, that's $385M. Hmm. Note that the airplane value did go up with a new 0 SMOH engine. The frequency of such events is extremely low. Mike C. You can buy a whole MU2 in decent condition with reasonable time remaining on the engines for $385 AMU!
_________________ Jay
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Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421 Posted: 12 Jun 2018, 07:11 |
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Joined: 08/30/13 Posts: 409 Post Likes: +71 Company: Cruce Aircraft Services Location: KPGD
Aircraft: Learjet 55, C-310
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What sort of cruise burns do you see at 180kts in a 421b? 200kts seems to be 34-36LOP?
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Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421 Posted: 12 Jun 2018, 10:08 |
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Joined: 11/08/12 Posts: 12798 Post Likes: +5224 Location: Jackson, MS (KHKS)
Aircraft: 1961 Cessna 172
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Username Protected wrote: What sort of cruise burns do you see at 180kts in a 421b? 200kts seems to be 34-36LOP? I could get down to about 30gph getting ~180 kts in the teens.
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Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421 Posted: 12 Jun 2018, 11:05 |
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Joined: 12/29/10 Posts: 2528 Post Likes: +2186 Location: Dallas, TX (KADS & KJWY)
Aircraft: T28B,7GCBC,E90
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Username Protected wrote: What sort of cruise burns do you see at 180kts in a 421b? 200kts seems to be 34-36LOP? I could get down to about 30gph getting ~180 kts in the teens.
I'm normally 40-42gph in the low 20's doing 210-215 ROP (in a C model).
Robert
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Post subject: Re: Cessna 340 vs 414 vs the 421 Posted: 22 Jul 2018, 20:34 |
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Joined: 11/06/11 Posts: 465 Post Likes: +129 Company: Southwest Airlines Location: KGEU
Aircraft: Baron E-55
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Hello 421 flyers, It has been a little while since I have posted, but I have been lurking. I just flew my E-55 baron back from Arizona where I have it annualed. My mechanic has not billed me yet. He said he would go on vacation first, and bill me after he gets back from his vacation with his family. He is going to Hawaii. Hmmm..... On to the subject at hand. I have continued looking at the 421's posted on controller and trade-a-plane. Many have continued on sale with continuing falling prices. Many that were suggested as possible good aircraft continue to remain for sale, for years now in some cases, with falling prices. Many Late 421 B models are now around the $100K range, some with low to mid time engines. Same with some early 421 C models that are now at or below the $ 150 K range. Any thoughts on any of these particular aircraft. Are any or you familiar with any of these aircraft or there owners. I still may pull the trigger someday. Especially as these prices keep falling. And yes, I am cognizant of the maintenance cost, but I have a great set of mechanics and have been in discussions with them about another aircraft like this. Thanks,
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