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 Post subject: Re: 425 Conquest I Recurring SID Inspections
PostPosted: 04 Feb 2022, 18:46 
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Joined: 05/31/13
Posts: 1227
Post Likes: +598
Company: Docking Drawer
Location: KCCR
Aircraft: C425
Don't get me wrong, I've seen a few 425's go out the door with a $50 or $60k 2,3,D, but they were always with deferred maintenance and inspections. And the $40k doesn't include any of the rare but really expensive SIDs. When those come due it will throw the average off.

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 Post subject: Re: 425 Conquest I Recurring SID Inspections
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2022, 02:36 
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Joined: 10/21/21
Posts: 22
Post Likes: +16
Aircraft: C425 C525
I fly more than one aircraft but for the 425 about 100 hours a year. All in total annual costs without hangar, capital costs, engine reserves it is under $100k per year including inspections. Otherwise, with all costs $1,500 seems close to the overall true number. But that part is a guess.

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I have all the planes I need, but not all the planes I want.


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 Post subject: Re: 425 Conquest I Recurring SID Inspections
PostPosted: 24 Feb 2022, 15:57 
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Joined: 02/24/14
Posts: 223
Post Likes: +151
Location: Ponoka AB
Aircraft: P210N
I read that in 2007 Cessna came out with a 22,500 hour life limit for the 441. However I cannot find that document. Apparently it does not apply to part 91 but only to commercial operators
I have looked in the maintenance manual for the 441 and do not see the airframe life limit.
Three AMO's in Alberta gave me three different answers.

Anybody know if the 22,500 hour life limit still applies to the 441?
Or a reference to the specific documentation.

Thanks

Hilgard


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 Post subject: Re: 425 Conquest I Recurring SID Inspections
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2022, 21:44 
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Joined: 02/24/14
Posts: 223
Post Likes: +151
Location: Ponoka AB
Aircraft: P210N
Username Protected wrote:
I read that in 2007 Cessna came out with a 22,500 hour life limit for the 441. However I cannot find that document. Apparently it does not apply to part 91 but only to commercial operators
I have looked in the maintenance manual for the 441 and do not see the airframe life limit.
Three AMO's in Alberta gave me three different answers.

Anybody know if the 22,500 hour life limit still applies to the 441?
Or a reference to the specific documentation.

Thanks

Hilgard


Answered my own question...

Section 5 of the Maintenance Manual. 22,500 hour life limit spelled out. After speaking to Transport Canada (our FAA) this does apply to all 441's, private or commercial in Canada.

Sigh!

So glad the government is looking out for our safety, and off course it's for the children.


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 Post subject: Re: 425 Conquest I Recurring SID Inspections
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2022, 22:26 
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Joined: 09/23/18
Posts: 130
Post Likes: +30
Username Protected wrote:
I read that in 2007 Cessna came out with a 22,500 hour life limit for the 441. However I cannot find that document. Apparently it does not apply to part 91 but only to commercial operators
I have looked in the maintenance manual for the 441 and do not see the airframe life limit.
Three AMO's in Alberta gave me three different answers.

Anybody know if the 22,500 hour life limit still applies to the 441?
Or a reference to the specific documentation.

Thanks

Hilgard


Answered my own question...

Section 5 of the Maintenance Manual. 22,500 hour life limit spelled out. After speaking to Transport Canada (our FAA) this does apply to all 441's, private or commercial in Canada.

Sigh!

So glad the government is looking out for our safety, and off course it's for the children.


Is there any pathway to go beyond that?

Can it turn experimental?

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 Post subject: Re: 425 Conquest I Recurring SID Inspections
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2022, 23:52 
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Joined: 02/24/14
Posts: 223
Post Likes: +151
Location: Ponoka AB
Aircraft: P210N
Quote:
Is there any pathway to go beyond that?

Can it turn experimental?


N registeration and fly part 91.

We have a US LLC already...

Hilgard


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 Post subject: Re: 425 Conquest I Recurring SID Inspections
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2022, 23:59 
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Joined: 08/24/13
Posts: 8407
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Company: Aviation Tools / CCX
Location: KSMQ New Jersey
Aircraft: TBM700C2
Username Protected wrote:
Quote:
Is there any pathway to go beyond that?

Can it turn experimental?


N registeration and fly part 91.

We have a US LLC already...

Hilgard


Limitations still apply for FAA Part 91


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 Post subject: Re: 425 Conquest I Recurring SID Inspections
PostPosted: 26 Feb 2022, 13:51 
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Joined: 08/05/16
Posts: 3097
Post Likes: +2222
Company: Tack Mobile
Location: KBJC
Aircraft: C441
Username Protected wrote:
I read that in 2007 Cessna came out with a 22,500 hour life limit for the 441. However I cannot find that document. Apparently it does not apply to part 91 but only to commercial operators
I have looked in the maintenance manual for the 441 and do not see the airframe life limit.
Three AMO's in Alberta gave me three different answers.

Anybody know if the 22,500 hour life limit still applies to the 441?
Or a reference to the specific documentation.

Thanks

Hilgard


Answered my own question...

Section 5 of the Maintenance Manual. 22,500 hour life limit spelled out. After speaking to Transport Canada (our FAA) this does apply to all 441's, private or commercial in Canada.

Sigh!

So glad the government is looking out for our safety, and off course it's for the children.


Where did you get the maintenance manual?

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 Post subject: Re: 425 Conquest I Recurring SID Inspections
PostPosted: 26 Feb 2022, 21:09 
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Joined: 02/24/14
Posts: 223
Post Likes: +151
Location: Ponoka AB
Aircraft: P210N
Quote:

Where did you get the maintenance manual?


Should have clarified, my AMO showed it to me in the manual, I do not have an actual MM.

Why do you ask?

Hilgard


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 Post subject: Re: 425 Conquest I Recurring SID Inspections
PostPosted: 26 Feb 2022, 21:12 
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Joined: 02/24/14
Posts: 223
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Location: Ponoka AB
Aircraft: P210N
Username Protected wrote:

Limitations still apply for FAA Part 91


I would have to take your word for it as I do not have official documentation. I only heard this and read it online in an article back from 2007.

Hilgard


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 Post subject: Re: 425 Conquest I Recurring SID Inspections
PostPosted: 26 Feb 2022, 23:40 
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Joined: 08/24/13
Posts: 8407
Post Likes: +3662
Company: Aviation Tools / CCX
Location: KSMQ New Jersey
Aircraft: TBM700C2
Username Protected wrote:

Limitations still apply for FAA Part 91


I would have to take your word for it as I do not have official documentation. I only heard this and read it online in an article back from 2007.

Hilgard


If it is stated as a "limitation" then it applies to everyone. If it is an inspection requirement then it depends on which inspection program and maint manual version you are on. This is for US registered aircraft.

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 Post subject: Re: 425 Conquest I Recurring SID Inspections
PostPosted: 27 Feb 2022, 03:17 
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Joined: 08/05/16
Posts: 3097
Post Likes: +2222
Company: Tack Mobile
Location: KBJC
Aircraft: C441
Username Protected wrote:
Quote:

Where did you get the maintenance manual?


Should have clarified, my AMO showed it to me in the manual, I do not have an actual MM.

Why do you ask?

Hilgard


I’ve been trying to find one (other than the 4 figure $ one from Textron). I bought one on eBay but it turned out to only be the first dozen or so chapters.


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 Post subject: Re: 425 Conquest I Recurring SID Inspections
PostPosted: 01 Mar 2022, 02:27 
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Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 19252
Post Likes: +23613
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
If it is stated as a "limitation" then it applies to everyone. If it is an inspection requirement then it depends on which inspection program and maint manual version you are on. This is for US registered aircraft.

Some observations:

The TCDS (A28CE) has one life limited part listed, an aileron hinge bracket, to be replaced after 10,000 hours. No mention is made of aircraft life limits or any other parts otherwise.

The MM copy I have, which I think is relatively recent, does NOT list an aircraft life limit of 22,500 hours. Instead, it has this statement:

"The Continuous Inspection Program is valid for airplanes with less than 22,500 hours. Beyond this, the continued airworthiness of the airplane can no longer be assured. The airframe should be retired when 22,500 flight hours have been accumulated."

This occurs in chapter 5, inspections.

Despite the imperative in the language, the above statement does not appear to be an FAA approved life limit as is typically found in chapter 4. It is a statement put out by Textron but is not binding on part 91 operators. The chapter 5 plan has a number of overhaul or replacement directives, but none of those are legally binding to operators *IF* they are not otherwise required by AD or by FAA approved life limits.

One has to understand exactly what power the OEM has and what power they don't have.

I do not believe the 441 has a life limit at 22,500 hours when flown under part 91 for US registered aircraft.

Mike C.

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