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 Post subject: Rocket Comparisons ...
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2020, 06:29 
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Helps me grasp the perspective of ...


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 Post subject: Re: Rocket Comparisons ...
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2020, 08:23 
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One extremely important bit that is left out is the launch site. Makes a lot of difference and helps with the size...

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 Post subject: Re: Rocket Comparisons ...
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2020, 08:32 
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Huh?

:scratch:


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 Post subject: Re: Rocket Comparisons ...
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2020, 08:37 
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the world is a carousel
the ariane rocket gets a head start toward orbital velocity because it is launched from closer to the equator

but then they also have to deal with the logistics of moving the finished spacecraft by sea to the launch site

I can see the argument both ways.
To me the logical thing for spacex would have been to set up their whole operation in brasil instead of texas


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 Post subject: Re: Rocket Comparisons ...
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2020, 08:40 
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Username Protected wrote:
Huh?

:scratch:


If you are launching into an equatorial orbit, it takes less energy the closer you launch to the equator.


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 Post subject: Re: Rocket Comparisons ...
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2020, 09:19 
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The Earth is rotating. The surface of the Earth at the equator is moving east at about 1,000 mph. At the poles, the surface of the earth isn’t moving at all, just spinning around. At 30 deg latitude (north or south) the surface of the earth is moving east about 860 mph. For a rocket, making up that 140 mph takes more fuel, hence a bigger rocket. That’s also why most satellites are launched headed east instead of west. Launching to the west in an equatorial orbit from 30 deg latitude requires 1740 mph move velocity than launching to the east.

For interplanetary missions, the speed of the earth around the sun (roughly 66,700 mph) gives a similar boost when headed “East” (counterclockwise around the sun as viewed from north).

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 Post subject: Re: Rocket Comparisons ...
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2020, 09:58 
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Thanks. Didn’t know that. :thumbup:

Can always count on BT for the straight scoop.

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 Post subject: Re: Rocket Comparisons ...
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2020, 14:38 
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Good game to play with people and kids old enough to understand:

The two of you are sitting down somewhere that is stationary, home, restaurant, waiting for an appointment, what ever.

Ask them "How fast are you moving/going right now?"

Generally they will say "I'm sitting right here beside you, I'm not moving at all."

Now you go into action blowing their mind. "Really? That's what you think? How about this, the earth is rotating eastward at approx. 1000mph, so you are moving east at that speed. (you can get into the latitude and moving slower as you go N or S discussion later if they are really interested)

They will usually nod their head in agreement and think about it for a bit. Now ask them again "How fast are you moving/going now?"

Usually the answer is "You just told me I'm going 1000 mph."

You respond, "Yes, that is right but you are also moving at approx. 66-67,000 mph around the sun as well as the 1000 mph that the earth is rotating."

They nod again and think for a bit.

For the third time ask "How fast are you moving/going now?" By this time you get a GTH look and "I guess I don't know (noun or adjective of their choice), why don't you tell me."

"Well, in addition to the earths rotation of 1,000 mph and the earths orbit at 66-67,000 mph our solar system is moving around the galactic center at approx. 500,000 mph. The human body is so used to these movements that we don't even notice them and we think we are sitting still even when we are not."

Then you can get into a "Theory of Relativity" discussion.


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 Post subject: Re: Rocket Comparisons ...
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2020, 15:30 
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Username Protected wrote:
Good game to play with people and kids old enough to understand:

The two of you are sitting down somewhere that is stationary, home, restaurant, waiting for an appointment, what ever.

Ask them "How fast are you moving/going right now?"

Generally they will say "I'm sitting right here beside you, I'm not moving at all."

Now you go into action blowing their mind. "Really? That's what you think? How about this, the earth is rotating eastward at approx. 1000mph, so you are moving east at that speed. (you can get into the latitude and moving slower as you go N or S discussion later if they are really interested)

They will usually nod their head in agreement and think about it for a bit. Now ask them again "How fast are you moving/going now?"

Usually the answer is "You just told me I'm going 1000 mph."

You respond, "Yes, that is right but you are also moving at approx. 66-67,000 mph around the sun as well as the 1000 mph that the earth is rotating."

They nod again and think for a bit.

For the third time ask "How fast are you moving/going now?" By this time you get a GTH look and "I guess I don't know (noun or adjective of their choice), why don't you tell me."

"Well, in addition to the earths rotation of 1,000 mph and the earths orbit at 66-67,000 mph our solar system is moving around the galactic center at approx. 500,000 mph. The human body is so used to these movements that we don't even notice them and we think we are sitting still even when we are not."

Then you can get into a "Theory of Relativity" discussion.

Yeah, but the galaxy is also moving through space. :hide:


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 Post subject: Re: Rocket Comparisons ...
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2020, 15:41 
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speed is only defined in terms of the frame of reference. I'm sitting at my kitchen table. I'll define my table as stationary and the galaxy is moving by at 500,000mph


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 Post subject: Re: Rocket Comparisons ...
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2020, 16:23 
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Username Protected wrote:
Yeah, but the galaxy is also moving through space. :hide:


That is not so sure. There is consideration to be given about the expansion of the universe. In a weird way it is also true that we are not moving, it's the space between objects which increases due to that expansion. Regardless of the motion of those objects.

A major issue is determining this factor, which is often assimilated into a constant in a few equations.

edit: unless it's not empty space, and it's made of something that we are not equipped to detect yet. And that something drives bits apart. The next years in astronomy and physics are going to be super fun!

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 Post subject: Re: Rocket Comparisons ...
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2020, 17:04 
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Man, here I was just trying to decide whether to be, or not to be.....

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 Post subject: Re: Rocket Comparisons ...
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2020, 17:12 
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Username Protected wrote:
Man, here I was just trying to decide whether to be, or not to be.....


You raise a fascinating point, though. But to me, the answer to that was given by Descartes: cogito, ergo sum.

"Discourse on the Method of Rightly Conducting One's Reason and of Seeking Truth in the Sciences" (sounds much better in French) is a fabulous read.

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 Post subject: Re: Rocket Comparisons ...
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2020, 17:43 
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speed is only defined in terms of the frame of reference. I'm sitting at my kitchen table. I'll define my table as stationary and the galaxy is moving by at 500,000mph


Some guys named Ptolemy, Copernicus, Galileo, and possibly the Catholic Church would like to speak with you. :eek: :rofl: :bud:


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 Post subject: Re: Rocket Comparisons ...
PostPosted: 07 Feb 2020, 01:04 
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Username Protected wrote:
Man, here I was just trying to decide whether to be, or not to be.....

I thought that is the question...


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