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19 Mar 2024, 02:15 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Turbo Commander
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2017, 09:51 
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Username Protected wrote:
I'm not sure what is misinterpreted-

"Operators can stay with the original maintenance schedule for the TPE331-3, -5, -6 and -8 engines"

It means operators who have chosen to upgrade their engines to -10 can use the -5 schedule.

It does not mean operators of the -5 can use the -10 schedule. They can't.

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Chip said -5 is either 5000 or 5400 TBO.

That's not true.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo Commander
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2017, 10:13 
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Mike, you are correct, I was mistaken. 5400 is TBO on the TPE331-5.
And you are also correct that I was misinterpreting the Allied Signal quotation.


Last edited on 02 Apr 2017, 10:28, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo Commander
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2017, 10:24 
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Looking through the status report on my engines and, as with most everything, the simple headline numbers oversimplify things a good deal for engines which have been previously overhauled.
This may be obvious to more knowledgeable people but various parts have different life limits or overhaul limits, in cycles or hours, so there are a number of variables in play. And I still have roughly 3000 hours remaining until overhaul is required on both sides, which is a long, long time :D


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 Post subject: Re: Turbo Commander
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2017, 10:44 
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Back to the earlier question of -5 versus -10s
The price differential of the -5 versus -10 engined 690s seems to be entirely a function of the market value of the two different engines. The performance difference is 30-40kts tas in the cruise. I am usually 265-270 ktas for my 690A versus the ~300 you get from the -10. Annoyingly, my speeds looks to be a bit shy of the headline marketing numbers...

I haven't flown a -10 but have been a passenger in Steve's, which I believe also has a longer wing. In the -10 you climb more quickly to 28,000 (assuming no RVSM, which is a safe assumption for the 690 which was certified to 31,000 feet) and get speed benefit in the cruise after you climb higher, while I'm basically going the same true airspeed from the low 20s into the high 20s. I often go higher than the low 20s for weather and because some of the airways I use in Europe have floors at FL250, but I'm not picking up a TAS advantage and my cabin gets towards 10,000+ feet in the high 20s. Mine and I believe all 690s (even with the -10 conversion) have have max cabin differential of 5.2 psi, so the cabin is getting up there at FL280 (especially if you don't quite make max differential).

For me the -5, has really amazing performance, still, coming out of pistons so recently. I would like more speed in the cruise but I remain blown away by the bang for the buck with my aircraft (even after two annual/150h inspections).


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 Post subject: Re: Turbo Commander
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2017, 10:48 
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The only negative I've heard of -10 conversion 690s is that you spend a good deal of time up near the barber pole, so it can be easy to overspeed in a descent.
If I had to buy over again and were ok with significantly increasing the budget, I would be tempted by a steam gauge -10 in lieu of a glassed up -5.


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 Post subject: Re: Turbo Commander
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2017, 13:42 
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Username Protected wrote:
The only negative I've heard of -10 conversion 690s is that you spend a good deal of time up near the barber pole, so it can be easy to overspeed in a descent.
If I had to buy over again and were ok with significantly increasing the budget, I would be tempted by a steam gauge -10 in lieu of a glassed up -5.


Patrick, what kind of glass do you have?


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 Post subject: Re: Turbo Commander
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2017, 14:48 
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Username Protected wrote:
The only negative I've heard of -10 conversion 690s is that you spend a good deal of time up near the barber pole, so it can be easy to overspeed in a descent.
If I had to buy over again and were ok with significantly increasing the budget, I would be tempted by a steam gauge -10 in lieu of a glassed up -5.


Patrick, what kind of glass do you have?

I have dual G600, GTN750/650 plus other various bits. I think it's great, just saying going fast is maybe cooler than gadgets. For me the dual G600 seems overkill, I wouldn't have paid for such an install, the previous owner always flew 2 pilots. I do fly with a copilot sometimes so it's nice to have. The prior owner took great care of the plane and spared no expense on its upgrades or maintenance. I got into the plane for not much more than the value of the engines, from my guesstimation.
Edit: the single G600 like Steve has seems like plenty.

Last edited on 02 Apr 2017, 18:23, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo Commander
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2017, 17:14 
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I know the G600 is a good setup. What's the word on the old Meggitt Magic that Eagle Creek installed several years ago? I know many of the Piper Meridian owners pulled out their Meggitts and replaced with Garmin.


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 Post subject: Re: Turbo Commander
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2017, 18:20 
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Username Protected wrote:
I know the G600 is a good setup. What's the word on the old Meggitt Magic that Eagle Creek installed several years ago? I know many of the Piper Meridian owners pulled out their Meggitts and replaced with Garmin.

No idea, I've seen the videos of those installs. It was a product of its time... There's not much in the way of electronics from that era which has aged well.


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 Post subject: Re: Turbo Commander
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2017, 22:49 
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Username Protected wrote:
I know the G600 is a good setup. What's the word on the old Meggitt Magic that Eagle Creek installed several years ago? I know many of the Piper Meridian owners pulled out their Meggitts and replaced with Garmin.

No idea, I've seen the videos of those installs. It was a product of its time... There's not much in the way of electronics from that era which has aged well.


That's probably a fair description Patrick. The Meggitt was the best option to replace complicated and expensive mechanical attitude/flight director and flight instruments with digital autopilot compatible electronic equipment. They still work well but they obviously don't compare to the Garmin from the current era.

I did the first install and certification flying in the late 90's at Byerly Aviation. It was quite fun. The 2100 DCFS autopilot came along a bit later. I had to make a couple trips to Mineral Wells to dial the stability into the unit. It was interesting and gave me an appreciation for the stability of autopilots previously flown.

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo Commander
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2017, 23:04 
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Username Protected wrote:
The -5 is a good engine and the hots can be low cost, or not, just not always predictable.

I have not seen one under $65K in recent times. What is the lowest one you have seen in the last 5 years?

The first stage turbine wheel and the ITT harness are almost always replaced at every HSI.

My advice to -5 owners is plan, per side, $80K for HSI, $100K for GB/HSI (triggers various SBs when you open the gearbox) and be happy if you are under. That's $180K to reach OH at 5400 hours.

My advice to -10 owners is plan $40K per side. Do it only once to 5000/7000 hours.

Mike C.


How many have you seen? I have seen multiple -5 hots completed at half your number. Not that I would count on it. The fact is you don't know what it will cost.

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo Commander
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2017, 00:16 
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Username Protected wrote:
How many have you seen?

About 16.

Quote:
I have seen multiple -5 hots completed at half your number.

Which shop?

Your data seems inconsistent with the HSI packages Honeywell was offering about 10 years ago. They would give you a capped HSI price, guaranteed not to exceed price, if you signed up for the package. Virtually no one came under, so the cap was hit most of the time.

Here was the 2008 program pricing:

The new 2008 Honeywell Special Program 27 Rev 8 lists the new Century Plus CAP Price for Hot Section Inspections for the -1 through-6 engines at $93,844.19

It is hard to believe you are now seeing -5 hot sections coming in at $35K when 10 years ago the Honeywell program was $94K.

Honeywell lost money on the program and stopped it a few years later IIRC.

Like I said, I've yet to see a -5 go through HSI for less than $65K. By all means, show us an invoice for one less than that.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo Commander
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2017, 00:21 
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I know I'm a little rusty on Garretts, but isn't the -10 conversion and the TBO extension two separate issues?

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Last edited on 03 Apr 2017, 00:23, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo Commander
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2017, 00:23 
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Mike, how is it that you've been involved in 16 hot sections? What do you really do for a living? Are you sandbagging us?

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 Post subject: Re: Turbo Commander
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2017, 00:35 
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Username Protected wrote:
Mike, how is it that you've been involved in 16 hot sections?

Well connected to MU2 community, observe others having work done. The -5, -6 engines used on K, M, J, L models.

Quote:
What do you really do for a living?

Professional BT poster. Hours are hell, but the lack of pay makes up for it.

Quote:
Are you sandbagging us?

I tell you what I think I know. When I have references, I use them.

Mike C.

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