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 Post subject: Re: MU2-N inspection costs
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2017, 07:05 
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The base inspection costs are not what gets you. It's all the hourly items as they come due. Mu2 has few calendar items though so if you buy and orebuyvright it can be a while before you hit those.

My first year of maint was less than 20k. That was flying 220 hours and involved a 100, 200/annual, a flat tire and a failed boost pump. I can dig up the exact number.


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 Post subject: Re: MU2-N inspection costs
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2017, 08:26 
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So what are the big "hourly items" aside from the 100/200/600 inspections? How often, and how much?

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 Post subject: Re: MU2-N inspection costs
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2017, 09:23 
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Username Protected wrote:
Looks like the 100/200 hr inspections are less than $4K .... probably something in the range of 5-8 hours fuel burn.

I'm hearing that the yearly inspection for a 40 year old 300+kt pressurized twin turboprop is under $3k and the "big inspection" is $4k.

Those are NA piston single prices. It's doesn't pass my sniff test; I don't buy it. There's a zero missing.

Instead of sniffing it, talk to someone who can tell you for certain. I've owned both a C340A and a Marquise and my average annual maintenance costs were less on the Marquise than on the 340. No, my annuals weren't $3 or $4k, that's just the inspection cost, but all in, my annuals were $15-$25k, comparable to a big bore pressurized twin.
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 Post subject: Re: MU2-N inspection costs
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2017, 10:26 
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Username Protected wrote:
Instead of sniffing it, talk to someone who can tell you for certain.

That's exactly what I'm trying to do - get input from owners like you on actual maintenance costs. I have talked to maintenance shops, and I've yet to get useful answers about costs from them. They will quote base inspection costs, but shy away from giving numbers on average real world costs once repairs are factored in.

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 Post subject: Re: MU2-N inspection costs
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2017, 10:29 
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Username Protected wrote:
, but shy away from giving numbers on average real world costs once repairs are factored in.


What you will find in owner reports, over and over, is that things don't break much. It's not like a piston where you can expect meaningful repairs all the time. Mostly things don't break. When they do, it's often a $10K event, but it's not the death by 1000 cuts piston experience.

At one point the place in tulsa offered an hourly maintenance program, if still available, that would give you a reasonable upper bound on costs.


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 Post subject: Re: MU2-N inspection costs
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2017, 11:07 
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Location: M54 Lebanon TN.
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We run an N model and a Marquise approximately 100-125hrs each a year. I had a K-model before these and the maintenance was about same. I budget $15-20k for maintenance and $5k for avionics issue's for each plane. That seems to about cover us for the year. I have been running them for 3 years now. Sometimes the 100/200hr is less than $10k then next time it is closer to $15k-20k. It just all depends on the squawks at the inspection time (tires, brakes, fuel nozzle's, cabin windows, treating de-ice boots etc.). I'm sure you could probably do it a little cheaper but we try to fix all squawks as they happen. We have very few unexpected issue's between inspections. About the only thing we have had unexpected is a couple of fuel boost pumps. They really are good birds with very few maintenance surprises.


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 Post subject: Re: MU2-N inspection costs
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2017, 12:22 
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My annual maintenance costs have run around $20K per year for about 100 hours per year. That includes a bit of catch up when I bought the plane. Some years a little less. Some a hair more. It is usually about $15k to get through the "annual" (100/200/1yr). A little more for the 600 hour (3 yr). But still similar. There is sometimes one other thing somewhere during the year - batteries, or a boost pump, or a generator, or something.

For the performance and capability, it is not bad.

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 Post subject: Re: MU2-N inspection costs
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2017, 12:24 
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^^ Completely agree with what Steve said.

I think you can go one or two years with a $10k-$15k range.
Then the 3 year / 600 adds $5k ish.

Every couple of years something in the $10k to $25k range will take a dump.
For us it was a Torque Sensor, ACM Replace and this year we are doing Boots.

On your first year or two of owning a new airplane and getting "caught up" and in the groove with a new plane I would expect these costs to be 2x.

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 Post subject: Re: MU2-N inspection costs
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2017, 12:31 
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Username Protected wrote:
Instead of sniffing it, talk to someone who can tell you for certain.

That's exactly what I'm trying to do - get input from owners like you on actual maintenance costs. I have talked to maintenance shops, and I've yet to get useful answers about costs from them. They will quote base inspection costs, but shy away from giving numbers on average real world costs once repairs are factored in.

Ok, then we're all good then. :)

I just took issue with your assertion that annuals were averaging $30-40k and they just aren't.

Regarding the hourly items, I don't recall there being a ton of those. Hopefully Anthony will provide some detail to his comment. 4 bladed props have to be overhauled every 5 years and can be extended to 7 years via AMOC. Replacing the windshields is an expensive proposition, but that only happens every 10-15 years, with some going longer than that.

Beyond the props and glass, the obvious other big ticket item is the engine. If something breaks on the engine like a fuel control unit or similar then you're talking some pretty big dollars. Fortunately, the Garretts are known for being relatively maintenance free. Over a 10 year period and say, 2000 hours of flying, I would take a pair of Garretts over a pair of big bore pistons without hesitation. Turbines don't need the constant care and feeding piston engines require. I didn't miss the tedious and time consuming setup of my 340's engines during each annual. And they often required more adjusting as the year went on. I never had to make any changes to my MU2 engines between annuals. The only maintenance I had to do between annuals was one time when I had a starter/generator go bad. IJSC sent a tech to my home field and changed it out in a couple hours.

I'll go back thru my annuals and see if I ever did a 600 hour inspection. If I did, I'll post the details.

You should also take into account, and I suspect you are, that an hour in an MU2 takes you quite a farther than your 340. If the hourly costs are similar, your per mile costs are less.

When I bought the Marquise and compared my all in costs to the 340, on a per hour basis, everything cost about the same, EXCEPT the fuel cost. My fuel consumption was a little more than 2x per hour (95 gph vs 40 gph) more than the 340. I'm talking averages here, including taxi, climb, cruise, etc. Factor in the MU2's speed and the cost difference between Jet fuel and avgas and that difference drops down in the 50-60% more PER MILE in fuel costs for my Marquise.

Funny story: When I started flying my Marquise, I was shocked to see how much fuel the MU2 burns on the ground at idle. My Marquise burned the same GPH IDLING ON THE GROUND as my C340 at full cruise! Needless to say, I tried to keep ground time at a minimum.

Short body MU2s burn less PPH and go faster so a short body will come a lot closer to what your 340 burns per mile, but it will still cost you more per mile to fly an MU2 vs a 340A, in my experience. Mike C. contends that his MU2M model costs less per mile than a C421 and he is likely correct.

I see that you're on the MU2 forums. Lots of good information there (and here in the archives).
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 Post subject: Re: MU2-N inspection costs
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2017, 13:10 
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The statement that failed the "sniff test" that I was referring to was the poster who said yearly inspections were about 8 hrs fuel burn, or around $2k. It looks like he was indeed missing a zero.

And yes, you can add my name to what seems to be a long list of people who are considering a move from a 340 to a twin turbine. My thought is not that I'll save money, but if I can go faster-farther-higher, carry more, go in and out of shorter fields while spending fewer days in the shop....who doesn't want that if the cost delta is reasonable?

It seems that in order to keep the costs down, I have to make the jump to -10 engines. The -5 HSIs are more than my TSIO-520 overhauls, and just as often.

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 Post subject: Re: MU2-N inspection costs
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2017, 15:12 
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Username Protected wrote:
The statement that failed the "sniff test" that I was referring to was the poster who said yearly inspections were about 8 hrs fuel burn, or around $2k. It looks like he was indeed missing a zero.

I think he was referring to the "inspection" part of the annual, which IIRC is $2-4k.

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 Post subject: Re: MU2-N inspection costs
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2017, 16:17 
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Two guys are in a blimp, lost in the Seattle fog. They pass by a skyscraper with an open window and the pilot leans out and yells to a person visible in the skyscraper: "Where are we?" The answer comes back "You're in a blimp!" The pilot then proceeds to navigate to a safe landing. The passenger says "How did that help you?" The pilot answers "Well, the answer was both entirely correct and totally useless, so I knew he worked for Microsoft tech support. Once I knew that, finding our way home was easy."

That's how I feel about "the inspection costs $2,000." ;)

(This joke is from the early 90's. Feel free to replace "Seattle" and "Microsoft" with your company of choice.)

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 Post subject: Re: MU2-N inspection costs
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2017, 18:51 
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I'm sure there are some operators that can squeeze a basic 100hr / 1 year for $2k.
But its another $500 for the SOAPs and consumables and so forth.

I think our easiest 100hr / 1 year was about $3800 which included the SOAPs and me doing a lot of the grunt work.

Reality is $15k to $25k for a basic first year depending on where you go*.

This * may be the biggest factor in reasonable / unreasonable maintenance experiences.

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 Post subject: Re: MU2-N inspection costs
PostPosted: 25 Jun 2017, 10:56 
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What's really instructive is when you crunch the numbers in regard to speed. Much higher TAS, coupled with lower JET A costs, negate the extra burn. Some back of the napkin chainsaw math yields a per mile cost similar to a non-pressurized recip twin like a Cessna 310.

So then the question becomes; is one able to swing the higher fixed costs?

I have got to start a business. I love my airline job, but I need to be making about twice as much.


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