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 Post subject: XTI Personal VTOL aircraft.
PostPosted: 20 Sep 2015, 10:12 
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Company: Easy Ice, LLC
Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
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https://www.startengine.com/startup/xti


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 Post subject: Re: XTI Personal VTOL aircraft.
PostPosted: 20 Sep 2015, 10:50 
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Joined: 03/19/12
Posts: 4044
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Location: Belton, TX (KTPL)
Aircraft: 1968 Bonanza E33
Interesting. Initial estimated sales price 10-12 million. Yes, a neat aircraft but will the extra cost justify the savings in time that it produces to only carry 5 people besides the pilot?


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 Post subject: Re: XTI Personal VTOL aircraft.
PostPosted: 20 Sep 2015, 10:52 
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Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 20748
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Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
It is a research project masquerading as a startup company. The research is both on the engineering side (can it work) and on human behavior (gullibility, lack of technical insight).

None of their pictures show counter rotating fans in the shrouds and they are going to need that for at least the rear fan, otherwise there is net torque on the airframe in hover.

The sliding door over the rear fan is impractical, two hinged doors (like they show underneath) would be far less weight and more reliable.

You will not get max range on a vertical takeoff. It will be like the Harrier, gross weight takeoff will require a running start, so the combination of vertical and long range won't be available.

A typical turboprop has about 33% thrust to weight ratio. This will need over 100%. That gives you a sense for how much more power this thing will need. That is why the Osprey has almost 13,000 HP. This thing is going need ~3000 HP, maybe more.

If it needs to be able to maintain a hover with an engine failure, double that. If you can't maintain a hover on one engine, then I doubt you can autorotate, so that will end up in a crash.

Most of you reading this will be dead before something like this becomes practical, if ever.

The better bet are helicopters with thrust augmentation, so called compound helicopters, or gyrodynes, such as:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_X2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocopter_X3

They will be slightly slower (~250 knots), but they will be able to perform full vertical takeoffs at max weights. They can also autorotate in case of engine failure.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: XTI Personal VTOL aircraft.
PostPosted: 20 Sep 2015, 10:58 
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Joined: 01/07/08
Posts: 2864
Post Likes: +455
Location: Walnut Creek, CA (KCCR)
Aircraft: 1979 Baron 58P
You can probably make $millions in you invest in this venture (if you start with $billions).


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 Post subject: Re: XTI Personal VTOL aircraft.
PostPosted: 20 Sep 2015, 11:10 
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Joined: 07/21/08
Posts: 5836
Post Likes: +7285
Location: Decatur, TX (XA99)
Aircraft: 1979 Bonanza A36
Username Protected wrote:
It is a research project masquerading as a startup company. The research is both on the engineering side (can it work) and on human behavior (gullibility, lack of technical insight).

None of their pictures show counter rotating fans in the shrouds and they are going to need that for at least the rear fan, otherwise there is net torque on the airframe in hover.

The sliding door over the rear fan is impractical, two hinged doors (like they show underneath) would be far less weight and more reliable.

You will not get max range on a vertical takeoff. It will be like the Harrier, gross weight takeoff will require a running start, so the combination of vertical and long range won't be available.

A typical turboprop has about 33% thrust to weight ratio. This will need over 100%. That gives you a sense for how much more power this thing will need. That is why the Osprey has almost 13,000 HP. This thing is going need ~3000 HP, maybe more.

If it needs to be able to maintain a hover with an engine failure, double that. If you can't maintain a hover on one engine, then I doubt you can autorotate, so that will end up in a crash.

Most of you reading this will be dead before something like this becomes practical, if ever.

The better bet are helicopters with thrust augmentation, so called compound helicopters, or gyrodynes, such as:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_X2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocopter_X3

They will be slightly slower (~250 knots), but they will be able to perform full vertical takeoffs at max weights. They can also autorotate in case of engine failure.

Mike C.

Check out CarterCopter.com
I know the chief test pilot and I have personally seen it fly.

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 Post subject: Re: XTI Personal VTOL aircraft.
PostPosted: 20 Sep 2015, 11:20 
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Joined: 03/19/12
Posts: 4044
Post Likes: +1793
Location: Belton, TX (KTPL)
Aircraft: 1968 Bonanza E33
Username Protected wrote:

If it needs to be able to maintain a hover with an engine failure, double that. If you can't maintain a hover on one engine, then I doubt you can autorotate, so that will end up in a crash.

A ducted fan like this would never autorotate. In order to maintain autorotational RPM would require much larger rotor/fan diameter to have the mass to keep the rotor RPM in the decel and cushion phase of the landing. The V-22 does not autorotate in helicopter mode. Read the reports, DOD struck that from the requirement when they realized that in order to autorotate in helicopter mode it would require extensive modification. They went with the numbers game, that a dual flameout was very rare. The AVOID area for helicopter mode is something like 0-2000 agl and 0-200 knots. Outside of that it enters a forward "glide".

This thing will drop like the proverbial rock if it lost the engines at a hover.


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 Post subject: Re: XTI Personal VTOL aircraft.
PostPosted: 20 Sep 2015, 12:03 
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Joined: 12/25/12
Posts: 3919
Post Likes: +4177
Location: KRHV San Jose, CA
Aircraft: A36, R44, C525
I'm not an engineer but in all of the years I have been flying I have seen so many of these wonder machines advertised I can't remember any of them coming to market.
But the most amaizing thing is how each time they get supposed credible folks on the board. Doesn't that diminish their reputation when these companies don't produce?

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 Post subject: Re: XTI Personal VTOL aircraft.
PostPosted: 20 Sep 2015, 12:10 
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Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 20748
Post Likes: +26221
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
Check out CarterCopter.com

Broken link, fixed:

http://www.cartercopters.com/

Mike C.

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Email mikec (at) ciholas.com


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 Post subject: Re: XTI Personal VTOL aircraft.
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2015, 22:13 
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Joined: 04/26/13
Posts: 21911
Post Likes: +22574
Location: Columbus , IN (KBAK)
Aircraft: 1968 Baron D55
Username Protected wrote:
A ducted fan like this would never autorotate...

This thing will drop like the proverbial rock if it lost the engines at a hover.

BRS.

:duck:

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 Post subject: Re: XTI Personal VTOL aircraft.
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2015, 21:44 
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Joined: 09/29/10
Posts: 5660
Post Likes: +4882
Company: USAF Simulator Instructor
Location: Wichita Valley Airport (F14)
Aircraft: Bonanza G35
Username Protected wrote:
I'm not an engineer but in all of the years I have been flying I have seen so many of these wonder machines advertised I can't remember any of them coming to market.
But the most amaizing thing is how each time they get supposed credible folks on the board. Doesn't that diminish their reputation when these companies don't produce?

I'm not a business major, but I'm guessing if a CEO-caliber individual can raise millions of dollars in venture capital for a project that is patently vaporware then he has a very attractive reputation in many corners of the business world.

As for these projects continuing to attract capital: "There's a sucker born every minute." The human race had run short of many commodities over the eons but we've never lacked for gullible people.

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