Bruce,

Why not play with a radical change. Instead of an upward sweep from the nose to the tail; which is rather common for the A* shape, try a downward sweep. It may make for some interesting contrast between the paint angles and the plane shape.

Tim

Interesting thought Tim. There are limitless possibilities! I tend toward upward sweeping designs and if I had more time with corel, I’d draw a bunch. I am trying to incorporate a convex theme to the scheme with the sweep down at the aft fuse. The nose is complicated by its shape for sure.

Two questions for the Aerostar owners and operators -

Can you (and if so, would you) load six adults, three couples, for a short "fun weekend" trip of say 1.5 hours max, including weekend luggage, and min 3.0 hours fuel on board at takeoff? Would you do it in some models and not others? The guys are 195 - 220 lbs; the gals are 120 -150 lbs. It looks to me, in most examples, the useful load would be a bit short.

I see that most operators fly with one of the middle seats out. Just curious if anyone operates occasionally with all six seats in and full.

Second question - How much of a maintenance concern is the J2BD engine with the single turbo compared to the other engine options? Would anyone pass on a Superstar just because of the J2BD?

The J2BD is the downdraft turbo engine and it's regarded as a bit of a maintenance queen. That big single turbo gets too hot and it's so crammed in there that it tends to cook accessories. That said, the J2BD can be very fast. Rigged right, they tend to be the fastest Aerostars.

As for loading 6 people up - it gets pretty cramped. If you want to do it, I'd go for a 700/Superstar with the higher MTWO mod from AAC Inc. Think it increases MTOW with another 850lbs, so then all of sudden you can fill all seats and almost full gas.

With 100 gallons on board, my plane would have 1,100 remaining for pax. 601P, 4300 empty weight, 7 seat belts, Fwiw.

I have loaded 6 in my 680. Even with three lightweight females we were crammed in like sardines, limited fuel. for a short trip you can live with it. Many have theirs set with five seats, mine I have as a four seater. Lots of room that way.

My 700P had U2A engines, I had no problems. Also if you get a 700 or 702 with the weight increase modification your load and range should not be a problem. If you contact Jim Christy at Aerostar I'm sure he can provide you the numbers.

Andy

Weight is generally not the issue, space is. The Aerostar is a great airplane at many things but carrying six adults isn't one of them. I wouldn't punish six adults in mine, even thought I have the sixth seat. I have used it once, and three of the passengers was kids.

That's a 414/421/Chieftain trip...

If six people were my 10% use and short trip why not. If a main mission...NO
You would need GW increase which gives you an extra 500 lbs.
Mine is a bit heavy and has useful load of around 2100 lbs with all six seats.

My thought on engines:
Unless you are buying a J2BD bird with good bones for $80k and plan to spend 500K to upgrade then NO...you want U2A engines.

1100 pounds for 6 people
900 pounds of fuel

That will be LESS than $100 hamburger...

maybe $99.59...each

I carried six adults a couple times for short flights, mostly business trips. Four men, and two ladies was my mix.

From a reg perspective, Max zero fuel weight was more of a concern than MTOW. Note I had the 700 with gross weight increase mods.

By far, space was the biggest concern, and yes it was tight.

Tim

Gentlemen, thank you.

The mission to carry six adults is a once or twice a year operation, a "fun weekend" within TX, but key to my wife accepting the idea of a new aircraft.

Our normal trips will be just us and maybe the pups, 650nm to 800nm four or five times a year, with an additional two or three round trips to CA and WA from TX annually. I would pull the middle seats for those trips. Once she experiences and understands the speed, and comfort/reduced noise of pressurization, the concern for seating six will go away.

With all that in mind, it seems a Superstar 700 or 700P with the U2A engines and gross weight increase would be the proper fit.

Now,if I could just work out the potty thing...

I wouldn’t buy a plane for 5-10% of my trips. I’d buy the best plane for the other 90%. The fact that the Aerostar has 7 seat belts and the Commander has 11 only means you have flexibility in a pinch. But damn handy when you need it.

I agree Bruce. The ONLY way this aircraft will get bought is if it can seat six adults for short trips. I have to meet that requirement. I have to be able to say, “...and Love, we can take the gang to the Hill Country/New Orleans/Texas A&M games/Padre Island/etc. Happy wife...well you know the rest.

This is why the statement “...you need a 421” doesn’t work for me. It would be great for 5 - 10% of my trips, but overkill for the remaining 90%.

Now,if I could just work out the potty thing... [/quote]

If the people in the plane know each other/are family, then a "short" 5-gal size bucket with a screw top (like what pool chemicals are shipped in) combined with a Walmart toilet seat does the trick for the occasional unexpected need. Fill it with 4" of absorptive Kitty Litter and you have your potty for those longer trips. Leave it on the hat rack.

If the people in the plane know each other/are family, then a "short" 5-gal size bucket with a screw top (like what pool chemicals are shipped in) combined with a Walmart toilet seat does the trick for the occasional unexpected need. Fill it with 4" of absorptive Kitty Litter and you have your potty for those longer trips. Leave it on the hat rack.[/quote]
That may work with 4 people in the plane. With 6 that would be a challenge!