I own a shop and maintain a gaggle of twin Cessnas and a few Senecas & Barons.

Guess what I fly ?

Forrest, I had the entire FAA registry downloaded and notes on every 600 in the US when I was shopping for mine. Option #2 was buy a 601 and remove the turbos. But 601s are even more rare than 600s so that's not much of a plan. But the plus side is you might score a B model with the wingtip extensions.

Yes the P models are more complex and carry 800 lbs more weight but I can't see doubling hourly operating expenses just to keep your turbos tuned and your pressure seals tight.

Forrest, I had the entire FAA registry downloaded and notes on every 600 in the US when I was shopping for mine. Option #2 was buy a 601 and remove the turbos. But 601s are even more rare than 600s so that's not much of a plan. But the plus side is you might score a B model with the wingtip extensions.

Yes the P models are more complex and carry 800 lbs more weight but I can't see doubling hourly operating expenses just to keep your turbos tuned and your pressure seals tight.

They’re doing both. They’re running their plane down and ignoring most costs.
Very few people truly understand the costs of operating an Aerostar the way it was intended to be operated whether it be an NA 600, or, a P model. Any Aerostar in top operating condition is something to behold. It is truly a marvel of aviation. Nothing comes close.

I disagree. The first hour is the most expensive. I figure between annual, upgrades... It was roughly $75K USD when I had the Aerostar.
After that, it is only about $200 an hour.

Tim (I could not resist)

Unless you are in aviation business it is difficult to enjoy flying while obsessing over the cost

Flying home from the flight shop yesterday, they installed new engines and did an annual inspection. The flight shop is hands down the best aircraft maintenance shop I’ve ever dealt with, A+ service and I would highly recommend them, they gained a lifelong customer.

I was making some impressive numbers on the way home,

28” 2200rpm FL210 236KTAS 38GPH
FL 230 same power setting was 245KTAS

TIT was 1575 and CHT all 390 or less

I’m blown away with how fast this thing is now, that’s got to be +-10kts faster than book. The only unusual thing I had done was lycon did the cylinders for these engines (they remove casting flaws and polish the valve bowls and add some special coatings, then leave the heads alodined and only paint the barrels black).

This.

And sometimes co-mingling the "costs of aircraft ownership" with cost of ownership of a particular type (and fixed costs vs variable costs) isn't a true gauge. Aerostars are not for the weak of checkbook, but few high performance aircraft are.

However I would put Foreflight and Garmin updates and such in my costs of flying and not a cost of an aircraft and certainly not a per/hour cost. Those don't vary that much whether it's a Seminole or a Cheyenne, or you fly 10 hours or 1000 hours. Recurrency training? Anything higher performance is going to require it, so why tag it to an aircraft unless it's a massive change / delta? Hangar? Same - although the size matters, but you're still hangaring something.

It makes sense to me, and maybe only me, that if you're considering an A*, compare the incremental costs to what you currently have / know (assuming that the A* isn't you're first airplane).

What's going to change? Bigger hangar? Annual training that the InsCo didn't require with the Seneca (or whatever)? Maintenance? (which will likely be a sizeable delta for anyone coming out of another piston).

I'd just offer that if you're considering one of these awesome machines, everyone does the math differently. The CPA in me encourages you to compare the changes from what you currently have... and then justify it. Because we're all supposed to have fun in our lives and "that sh1t" (having fun) doesn't belong on a spreadsheet.

Granted there aren't many of them out there, Forrest, but my 600 is known ice, digital radar, engine driven R134a A/C, Garmin glass, copilot instrumentation, EIS, and digital STEC.

I repeat - door seal and turbos. It's costing you an extra $500 an hour to maintain those?

The only time I ever had a $40,000 annual was the one early on in my tenure that included two Mattituck overhauls. And I think I'm up to my third prop overhaul with this annual. And on my second set of boots. So I have some familiarity with what it costs to maintain an Aerostar.

Sounds like a very nice 600.
(I made an offer one like that back when I was looking (1980 600A).

There is more to pressurization Than turbos and a door seal (although if you don’t have the electric pump that door seal can be expensive -pneumatic pumps)

Wastegate

The linkages for wastegates

The actuators

All wear and fail.

Windows crack and break.

Engines with turbos (not mine -yet) need replacement cylinders.

Run hard (1650 TIT) turbos last about 1000 hours.

The plumbing for the combustion heater can be a source of trouble (early on my plane would only heat unpressurized).

Enough problems are outside the experience of an average mechanic which means either a reposition flight to an expert or paying for learning curve.

All that said:

It’s worth it.

Forrest, Just curious since I have a similar Lycoming TIO 540 in my Mooney, what do you run your TIT temp at for it to last? BTW is your exhaust system Inconel?
Thanks
Steve

It is, exhaust and tail pipes.

I have TIT probes on both turbos (right turbo is the official temperature), and limit them to less than 1650 deg, on the hottest TIT.
I keep CHTs below 400 deg.

I climb at full rich and 29” x 2550 and cruise (LOP) at 22-2300 rpm, limited by TIT temps.

Ran the first engine to about 2300 hours and this one is at 1000 hrs and haven’t replaced a cylinder yet.

Unfortunately my Mooney doesn't have any options like inconel so I've been limiting TIT to 1625 max and the CHT's to 400.
Thanks Forrest

Limiting CHTs to 400 deg is a good idea (IMO).

The 1650 limit comes from the original limits (with steel exhaust), I went with inconel out of an abundance of caution.

Interestingly the Piper Mirage has a 1750 TIT limit, I am not sure what kind of exhaust system they have but I suspect that even with steel exhaust you should be OK at 1650.
On further looking, according to a review in the AOPA magazine (https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all ... ibu-mirage) your plane has the 1750 limit as well.

Limiting CHTs to 400 deg is a good idea (IMO).

The 1650 limit comes from the original limits (with steel exhaust), I went with inconel out of an abundance of caution.

Interestingly the Piper Mirage has a 1750 TIT limit, I am not sure what kind of exhaust system they have but I suspect that even with steel exhaust you should be OK at 1650.
On further looking, according to a review in the AOPA magazine (https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all ... ibu-mirage) your plane has the 1750 limit as well.