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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 18 Apr 2022, 12:40 
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Username Protected wrote:
Mike, while AAC is clearly one of the best Aerostar shops around, your observation that they are the only one is incorrect as can be attested to by myself and many other Aerostar owners.

100% agree.

There are great Aerostar shops across the USA.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 18 Apr 2022, 12:56 
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Regarding initial climb and acceleration, it depends on your expectations. I found it’s ability to climb and accelerate after takeoff to be anemic. It seemed to take forever to reach 500fpm above Vyse clean following a 6300lb departure.


I had the gross weight increase, so ~6800lbs MTOW. Even at MTOW, if you follow the recommendations of almost every A* instructor I met or talked too, you have to raise the nose a lot to prevent blowing through gear up speeds as you blast past blue line. I raised the gear as soon as I rotated with a positive rate of climb, e.g. one second after rotation. If I did not, I was blowing past gear up speeds.

The only way to have it be slow, was to lift early and hang on the props. With those wings, and high wing loading, the plane has an extensive and very powerful area of reverse command. So yes, if you rotate early, it will be an initial dog.

Tim


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 18 Apr 2022, 14:05 
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Username Protected wrote:
I think there's a huge difference between the 601P and the 700's when it comes to acceleration and getting to blue line. I was never comfortable in my 601P in that window between rotation and blue line and it always seemed to take longer than expected (after she got there I'd see 1200ft/min climbs, so it was just that part of the curve). I think the 700 is much better in this regard, but it comes with a higher fuel burn.

If I went back to an Aerostar, I'd probably go for a 700.

Winglets seem to help with that issue in all Aerostar models


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 18 Apr 2022, 19:36 
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there has been a lot of study by one of the test pilots that owns an aerostar on at what speed it is best to climb at. and the result is that until you get to 130 knots and higher the wing is not as efficient. typically if I climb at climb power, about 85%, I will get at least 1000 FPM at 150 or so.

so especially if you are heavy accelerating when the gear comes up until you get to 130 or higher is the way to get the best climb performance.

It is an aircraft designed to be flown fast.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 18 Apr 2022, 19:37 
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there has been a lot of study by one of the test pilots that owns an aerostar on at what speed it is best to climb at. and the result is that until you get to 130 knots and higher the wing is not as efficient. typically if I climb at climb power, about 85%, I will get at least 1000 FPM at 150 or so.

so especially if you are heavy accelerating when the gear comes up until you get to 130 or higher is the way to get the best climb performance.

It is an aircraft designed to be flown fast.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2022, 06:35 
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viewtopic.php?t=132806


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2022, 08:28 
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Username Protected wrote:
Regarding initial climb and acceleration, it depends on your expectations. I found it’s ability to climb and accelerate after takeoff to be anemic. It seemed to take forever to reach 500fpm above Vyse clean following a 6300lb departure.

Not sure what you were flying before the Aerostar Mike, but you're the first person I've heard complain that a 700hp Aerostar is anemic.

I've attached a pic of what's a more common issue for me...departing under Toronto's Class B Shelf and ATC has held me at 2500' MSL/1500"AGL.

I've pulled back from takeoff to climb power but I'm still accelerating and still (slightly) climbing. I'm often sitting there wondering if I should pull the power back even more or just wait for the climb clearance.


Perhaps I wasn’t clear. I’m only referring the portion of flight from rotation to established in a climb above 118kts. It takes a while. No question that once you get above 130kts performance is great

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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2022, 10:50 
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Username Protected wrote:
Perhaps I wasn’t clear. I’m only referring the portion of flight from rotation to established in a climb above 118kts. It takes a while. No question that once you get above 130kts performance is great


That was only gear up time, two maybe three seconds even at MTOW. It just was not that long. Having only sat second seat in a turboprop (King Airs, Meridians, Evolution), no it does not match a turbine. However, it never seemed very long for me.

The way you described it, I was thinking more along the lines of the Piper Seminole I did my multi in. In which case, it took probably what felt like a few minutes but was likely ten to fifteen seconds when departing from a higher altitude airport (ok, not even that high, just a few thousand feet MSL).

Tim


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 17 May 2022, 18:27 
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Joined: 06/16/09
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Location: Wichita
Aircraft: C90B, C90A, 940, A*
so - looking for some opinions - and guessing this may be the right place -

What to do with a spare A*?

I have posted sparingly in the past on this, but actually re-purchased my 78 601/700 in 2016 after selling it about a decade earlier I missed it so much. It was in Tennessee after getting fresh U2As then right before the owner had medical issues. I was in the right place at the right time. Spent the usual amount working on catchup and pressurization - then just didn't fly it. No particular reason other than had other aircraft for the missions at the time and over time it has not been used. It has been preserved but not flown now for 2y. So it's a roughly 1800TT 40 SMOH in need of a future.

Annual/fly 40h/sell?
Sell as is?
Investigate some STC development through my shop that may prolong the airframe such as another power plant option? although not sure what that would be, as we all dream of a diesel or turbine replacement.

It is a great aircraft with most mods that would make a lovely addition to a passionate owner, which I was at one time but life, and aircraft, change.

What would you do?


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 17 May 2022, 19:49 
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Username Protected wrote:
so - looking for some opinions - and guessing this may be the right place -

What to do with a spare A*?

I have posted sparingly in the past on this, but actually re-purchased my 78 601/700 in 2016 after selling it about a decade earlier I missed it so much. It was in Tennessee after getting fresh U2As then right before the owner had medical issues. I was in the right place at the right time. Spent the usual amount working on catchup and pressurization - then just didn't fly it. No particular reason other than had other aircraft for the missions at the time and over time it has not been used. It has been preserved but not flown now for 2y. So it's a roughly 1800TT 40 SMOH in need of a future.

Annual/fly 40h/sell?
Sell as is?
Investigate some STC development through my shop that may prolong the airframe such as another power plant option? although not sure what that would be, as we all dream of a diesel or turbine replacement.

It is a great aircraft with most mods that would make a lovely addition to a passionate owner, which I was at one time but life, and aircraft, change.

What would you do?


Paging Doug Griffin?

I think he's in the market right now. Dayum, I really need to find a mission to own one of these.

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"It rubs the lotion on it's skin"


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 17 May 2022, 20:33 
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Sell as is, would be my advice. You're never gonna get the engine overhauls back. They'll be $60-70K/side all in, which is too steep even in these crazy times for someone to match.

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Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 17 May 2022, 22:26 
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Aircraft: C90B, C90A, 940, A*
thanks Adam, can you expound? Not positive I'm following about getting the overhauls back -


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 18 May 2022, 00:23 
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Username Protected wrote:
Sell as is, would be my advice. You're never gonna get the engine overhauls back. They'll be $60-70K/side all in, which is too steep even in these crazy times for someone to match.


Pretty sure he said fresh U2As so that ship has sailed.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 18 May 2022, 00:25 
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Username Protected wrote:
thanks Adam, can you expound? Not positive I'm following about getting the overhauls back -


I'm sorry Marty, I read it as your engines had 1800hrs on them. I see that was TT, my bad.

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Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 18 May 2022, 00:30 
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Aircraft: ISP Eagle II SR22 g2
Username Protected wrote:
Sell as is, would be my advice. You're never gonna get the engine overhauls back. They'll be $60-70K/side all in, which is too steep even in these crazy times for someone to match.


His engines are freshly overhauled. His question was should he sell as is, out of annual and with 2 years of inactivity or rather get a fresh annual and fly it for ~40 hours and then sell.

I would say option B as many buyers are wary of potentially large expenditures with out of annual inactive aircraft. Making it turnkey will bring you a substantially larger buyer pool.

The only risk obviously is where will the market be in 3 months?


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