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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 20 Dec 2017, 10:43 
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Aircraft: Piper Cheyenne II
I have time in two different Aerostars, the one I owned for two years and one that belongs to a good friends of mine. They were both Super 700's, mine was a 1979 601P and my friend's is a 1982 602P. I'm sure that sounds a little confusing to those of you researching the Aerostar, I'll come back to that in a bit.

Both of our Aerostars did identical numbers. 240 to 245 knots true airspeed in the lower 20's at 65% cruise power (which to me was the highest reasonable power I'd use). I used about 24.5 gph per engine at that altitude, which is probably a bit fat because I didn't have an engine monitor in my airplane and I was adding some temperature margin.

One of the really cool things about the Aerostar was the range of speeds & fuel flow you could use, even the lowest still being pretty speedy. My favorite power setting was actually 55% power, which gave me 220 to 230 knots true in the 20's at about 38 gph total. On flight planning comparisons it cost me just a few minutes and cut the fuel burn noticeably. Also the prop rpm was 2100 for that setting, which dropped the noise level nicely (noise is not bad at all even at 2200 rpm at 65%).

Now - what was that jibbereish about Super 700 / 601P / 602P blah blah blah?

Most of the 700 hp Aerostars were originally a 601P or a 602P that were upgraded with a Machen STC. A small number (around 25 I think) of "700P" Aerostars were made by Piper when they owned the program, made from the assembly line with 350 hp engines. The 601P and 602P were essentially identical airframes, with different engines (irrelevant once STC's with the bigger engines), the 700P has some airframe differences.

Machen is the same group of people who are now Aerostar Aircraft, and are the same people that were at Aerostar before the type certificate made the rounds of ownership. Suffice to say, the people who answer your calls at Aerostar Aircraft today are the people who were making these airplanes and developed these STC's all along. So even though they are "modified" airplanes, they are modified by the original people that designed and built them in the first place (and now own the factory and type certificate)- so to me they are "developed", not modified.

Over the years there were many slight variations of these STC upgrades, and it pays to do a little homework to know what the differences are (between this forum, Aerostar Aircraft, and the dedicated Aerostar clubs & forums you will find great detail on this).

Does this make any difference on speed? I think not - and all of the 700 hp Aerostars will be very similar speeds, though I think there are slight variations. My personal favorite was exactly what I had - the "Super 700" was the name given to the airplane equipped with the U2A version of the TIO-540 (same power as all the 350 hp engines, but came standard with the heavier cases, and a few other odds and ends). I think most of the non-U2A 350 hp engines in the fleet have the appropriate upgrades that it probably isn't important whether the engines are U2A's or not, but you will want to know if the other updates had been done.

How is any of that relevant to the question on speed? Just that my data points are both from airplanes with the Machen U2A installations on 601P / 602P airframes and you could bank on 240 kts true to 245 knots true on 48 gph total in the 20's varying with weight and exact altitude.

Sorry for the ramble - just enjoying my morning coffee and talking about Aerostars!


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 20 Dec 2017, 14:30 
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The "factory" 700P's are easy to spot - they have their pitot tube removed from the top of the rudder and to the forward fuselage. Where it should have been all along, in my opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 20 Dec 2017, 16:18 
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Location: Good Hope, GA
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I need a friend to let me go for a ride in their Aerostar. Anyone in the South East?
:bud:

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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 20 Dec 2017, 17:49 
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Joined: 11/06/10
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Location: Outside Boston, or some hotel somewhere
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Username Protected wrote:
I need a friend to let me go for a ride in their Aerostar. Anyone in the South East?
:bud:


A few. Cross post the request on http://aerostar-forum.com/


Tim


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 20 Dec 2017, 20:27 
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Joined: 01/05/11
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Aircraft: 1969 Aerostar 600,
I like the pitot tube in the vertical fin.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 21 Dec 2017, 07:48 
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Joined: 11/25/11
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Location: KGNF, Grenada, MS
Aircraft: Baron, 180,195,J-3
Username Protected wrote:
I like the pitot tube in the vertical fin.


Tom,

I wish you would convince me it is a good idea. :thumbup: Seriously, not being able to cover it when on the ground has always bothered me. The damn dirt dobbers around these parts make our fire ant issue seem benign. That being said, I have not had a problem but then, I have a fully enclosed hangar as well.

And then! :bugeye: I have an Aspen 2000 panel that is 100% dependent on the pitot system for its AHRS. The one big safety improvement for my airplane, IMO, would be a second pitot tube, in the nose. I have asked around the A* group for help, but they are exactly the "bust our ass to help you" group I find on BT: just my personal experience. Not unless it's one of the shops that wants to bust your wallet open anyway.

Jg

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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 21 Dec 2017, 10:02 
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Joined: 12/06/11
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Location: Bogota, Colombia
Aircraft: Aerostar 601P
Username Protected wrote:
I like the pitot tube in the vertical fin.


Tom,

I wish you would convince me it is a good idea. :thumbup: Seriously, not being able to cover it when on the ground has always bothered me. The damn dirt dobbers around these parts make our fire ant issue seem benign. That being said, I have not had a problem but then, I have a fully enclosed hangar as well.

And then! :bugeye: I have an Aspen 2000 panel that is 100% dependent on the pitot system for its AHRS. The one big safety improvement for my airplane, IMO, would be a second pitot tube, in the nose. I have asked around the A* group for help, but they are exactly the "bust our ass to help you" group I find on BT: just my personal experience. Not unless it's one of the shops that wants to bust your wallet open anyway.

Jg



We got something like this from the seller of our Aerostar to place the cover of the pitot tube on top of the fin, it works :

https://www.amazon.com/Fluorescent-Head ... g=btalk-20

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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 21 Dec 2017, 10:40 
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Location: GTU - Georgetown, Tx
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JGG,

Our B25 Mitchell Bomber (Devildog) has the pitot probe about 10' off the ground.

We have attached the pitot cover to a long pole (5') that will let us install and remove the pitot cover.

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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 21 Dec 2017, 11:11 
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Joined: 05/26/13
Posts: 438
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Aircraft: Aerostar, SR22,RV8,
JGG, the Aerostar factory has a kit to install a second pitot in the later location, leaving the original in place.

It's on my list for the annual, since it's a factory kit no field approval is necessary.

Also, it's not too hard to cover the pitot tube. I'm just north of you in Memphis and agree about the mud daubers. I have a homemade cover cobbled together by the previous owner which is ugly but very functional, and have 3D printed a lighter one but I'm still tweaking the new one.

Come up and I'll show you my cover, or I'll print you on of your own.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 21 Dec 2017, 20:59 
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Joined: 01/05/11
Posts: 314
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Aircraft: 1969 Aerostar 600,
John, we really don't have problems with mud daubers up North here, I also am in a fully enclosed hangar that really doesn't invite any kind of insect or animal issues for that matter.
That being said, I really do have to come up with some sort of cover that can be easily installed and removed when my wife and I vacation down South during the winter months.
Aesthetically, I really like the looks of the pitot tube on the vertical fin. Actually, I like it so much I purchased a brand new, shiny stainless pitot tube to replace the original which was weathered beyond being able to refurbish to looking brand spanking new which is what I wanted. Considering I just got my Aerostar painted, it made no sense to keep an ugly looking pitot tube in such a high profile area. As far as I am concerned, the pitot tube on the vertical fin of an Aerostar is like a beautiful piece of jewelry around a woman's neck, It accentuates the beauty that is already there.
I have yet to see any pitot tube on any airplane or jet that is located on the fuselage look good or improve the looks of an aircraft. Pitot tubes on the fuselage do nothing but perform the intended function and get in the way making them very susceptible to damage compared to the Aerostar pitot tube on the vertical fin. John, I think I gave you more of an answer than you were anticipating. I do like my pitot tube.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 21 Dec 2017, 22:33 
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Joined: 11/25/11
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Location: KGNF, Grenada, MS
Aircraft: Baron, 180,195,J-3
Well thanks to all. You seem to have solved both problems. James, maybe I'm getting senile, but I swear I called the factory and got a "no go".on the nose pitot tube installation about three years ago. Maybe I talked to the wrong person. I will email them tomorrow as mine goes in for annual in February.

And Miguel, I ordered your suggested thingamadoogy from Amazon. :thumbup:

I remember when I was a "kid" hanging around the airport, that the brothers who ran the shop and ag service were working on a Taylorcraft trying to figure out why the pitot tube was not working. They finally had to disassemble the whole thing and found a dirt dobber plug ten feet down the pitot tube.

About five years ago, my mechanic shop was hired to go make a 206 ferriable that had been sitting in a shed on a farm for 20 years. They removed over 200# of dirt dobber nest from the airplane!

Jg

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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 22 Dec 2017, 08:33 
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Joined: 06/23/09
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Company: Dermatology
Location: ChattanoogaDayton, TN (2A0)
Aircraft: 1969 Bonanza V35A
John,

My dads A* had one of those Cessna dohickies that tip up in the airflow. Like this one

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/i ... ckkey=3644

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Having COVID over Christmas SUCKS!!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 22 Dec 2017, 08:44 
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Joined: 11/25/11
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Location: KGNF, Grenada, MS
Aircraft: Baron, 180,195,J-3
Username Protected wrote:
John,

My dads A* had one of those Cessna dohickies that tip up in the airflow. Like this one

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/i ... ckkey=3644


Jay,

I'll have to figure out how to get up to measure the pitot diameter. On the A*, the tube is pretty big. Good solution, but I might not like the looks.

Jg

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Waste no time with fools. They have nothing to lose.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 22 Dec 2017, 09:48 
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Username Protected wrote:
Jay,

I'll have to figure out how to get up to measure the pitot diameter. On the A*, the tube is pretty big. Good solution, but I might not like the looks.

Jg


I thought you were passed the age where looks matter? :D

Tim


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 22 Dec 2017, 13:10 
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Joined: 05/26/13
Posts: 438
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Aircraft: Aerostar, SR22,RV8,
Username Protected wrote:
John,

My dads A* had one of those Cessna dohickies that tip up in the airflow. Like this one

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/i ... ckkey=3644


Jay,

I'll have to figure out how to get up to measure the pitot diameter. On the A*, the tube is pretty big. Good solution, but I might not like the looks.

Jg


The diameter of the pitot tube is 1.25”

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