29 Mar 2024, 05:03 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Aerostars Posted: 27 Apr 2018, 07:48 |
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Joined: 01/05/11 Posts: 314 Post Likes: +226
Aircraft: 1969 Aerostar 600,
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Username Protected wrote: Marty.... while you are at it install new prop, throttle, and mixture control cables....nothing worse to have one go bust in fliight Yep, Walter knows, that's where it goes and it doesn't stop until you are done.
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Post subject: Re: Aerostars Posted: 27 Apr 2018, 11:15 |
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Joined: 06/16/09 Posts: 78 Post Likes: +41 Location: Wichita
Aircraft: C90B, C90A, 940, A*
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Smart!
Mixtures already on the list
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Post subject: Re: Aerostars Posted: 11 May 2018, 22:38 |
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Joined: 12/06/11 Posts: 21 Post Likes: +27 Location: Bogota, Colombia
Aircraft: Aerostar 601P
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HK2510G in SKMD
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Post subject: Re: Aerostars Posted: 25 May 2018, 13:59 |
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Joined: 12/30/15 Posts: 1697 Post Likes: +1712 Location: Charlotte
Aircraft: Avanti-Citabria
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Family of four ~780 lbs 90 lbs of luggage 210 gallons fuel About to be FL200 and 230kts 20 pounds under gross Twin piston pressurized nervana Aerostar 702P
_________________ I wanna go phastR.....and slowR
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Post subject: Re: Aerostars Posted: 25 May 2018, 15:20 |
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Joined: 02/05/15 Posts: 382 Post Likes: +104 Location: KSLC
Aircraft: Divorced: AC690A-10
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Username Protected wrote: Family of four ~780 lbs 90 lbs of luggage 210 gallons fuel About to be FL200 and 230kts 20 pounds under gross Twin piston pressurized nervana Aerostar 702P What is your cruise fuel flow there?
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Post subject: Re: Aerostars Posted: 23 Jun 2018, 08:39 |
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Joined: 03/08/14 Posts: 102 Post Likes: +118 Company: Innovation Two
Aircraft: Piper PA 60
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My family of 4 is a little lighter (grand kids under 12) and we blocked 220 Kts at 75% (Toronto to Bahamas). Flows 16 per side for 32 total. All at FL 210/220. That's a 78 601P. Stops 1/2 way at about 2.5 hrs with fill-ups at 112 / 116 gals per leg.
Bob Keeping
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Post subject: Re: Aerostars Posted: 23 Jun 2018, 08:55 |
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Joined: 11/25/11 Posts: 9168 Post Likes: +17159 Location: KGNF, Grenada, MS
Aircraft: Baron, 180,195,J-3
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Username Protected wrote: My family of 4 is a little lighter (grand kids under 12) and we blocked 220 Kts at 75% (Toronto to Bahamas). Flows 16 per side for 32 total. All at FL 210/220. That's a 78 601P. Stops 1/2 way at about 2.5 hrs with fill-ups at 112 / 116 gals per leg.
Bob Keeping Bob's speed/fuel burns replicate those of my 601P. I fly ROP and lean according to TIT with 1600 degrees my self imposed limit. Jg
_________________ Waste no time with fools. They have nothing to lose.
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Post subject: Re: Aerostars Posted: 24 Jun 2018, 11:08 |
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Joined: 03/08/14 Posts: 102 Post Likes: +118 Company: Innovation Two
Aircraft: Piper PA 60
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Same for me JG. The TIT limit is 1650 - and that is a limit expressed for the turbine itself. I set 1550 as a mixture limit in case it wanders between instrument scans. If you have a monitor that can flag at a threshold then you can go as tight to 1650 as possible.
I suppose the other issue is precisely where in the stack the TIT sensor is. C-FKWM has only one TIT while some AEST's have two/
I investigated why this limit exists and feedback is that the turbo rotor / stator / case have different thermal expansion factors, especially at upper limits. Danger is the rotor gets bigger than the cavity in the case and makes contact at very high speed.
If one is going to approach 1600, best to do so in small steps. Makes you wish for one of those vernier fuel flow controllers.
Bob Keeping
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Post subject: Re: Aerostars Posted: 24 Jun 2018, 11:48 |
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Joined: 11/25/11 Posts: 9168 Post Likes: +17159 Location: KGNF, Grenada, MS
Aircraft: Baron, 180,195,J-3
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Bob,
I believe our goals and thoughts are the same with regard to engine limits. I initially lean to 1550 and then tweak it up as things stabilize. I do have TIT probes on all cylinders and temps "wander" even after "stabilizing". I was told that the turbochargers on our engines are $5,000 a pop: that's four pops plus installation, the failure experience, and downtime.
Others, like Forrest, are using LOP with success.
Jg
_________________ Waste no time with fools. They have nothing to lose.
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Post subject: Re: Aerostars Posted: 24 Jun 2018, 19:31 |
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Joined: 11/25/11 Posts: 9168 Post Likes: +17159 Location: KGNF, Grenada, MS
Aircraft: Baron, 180,195,J-3
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The above is the most ridiculous post I have ever made. "TIT probes on all cylinders"? Really. That is a unique installation, you think? What I read in Bob's post to make my mind crossfire is irrelevant. A man with any pride would edit the above post but I'm not going to. I'll leave it as a reminder of just how disjointed my thinking can be. Funny thing is I realized what I had said as I was shooting approaches in the Aerostar this afternoon and tweaking the ever wandering TIT's. Anyway, cut me some slack and don't belittle me anymore than I have belittled myself. Jg
_________________ Waste no time with fools. They have nothing to lose.
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Post subject: Re: Aerostars Posted: 24 Jun 2018, 22:13 |
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Joined: 12/19/16 Posts: 2 Post Likes: +2
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Username Protected wrote: The above is the most ridiculous post I have ever made. "TIT probes on all cylinders"? ... Anyway, cut me some slack and don't belittle me anymore than I have belittled myself. Jg JG, I think the burden of the belittlement falls on all of us who read this and didn't think deeply enough about it (myself included!) to catch the error. So you're in good company. –Chris
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Post subject: Re: Aerostars Posted: 27 Jun 2018, 11:04 |
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Joined: 03/08/14 Posts: 102 Post Likes: +118 Company: Innovation Two
Aircraft: Piper PA 60
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JG you are being too hard on yourself (well this time anyway)
I took it to mean you had two TIT probes - one on each bank of cylinders. I was citing my experience with only one TIT which of course means monitoring only one side, only half the engine or only three cylinders.
It made sense to me and still does. Two probes means TIT monitors for all cylinders. What does that say about me?
Bob Keeping
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Post subject: Re: Aerostars Posted: 27 Jun 2018, 20:25 |
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Joined: 11/25/11 Posts: 9168 Post Likes: +17159 Location: KGNF, Grenada, MS
Aircraft: Baron, 180,195,J-3
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Bob, It is a good time to point out that TIT probes wear. On a twin, it is not a big deal because you can just match fuel flows to the other engine. On a single, it can cause you to run "too high" TIT's. When I flew the Mooney Bravo, the TIT probe became a scheduled replacement item based on hours. I think I settled on 400 hours. I am sure you know this, but there are others looking on here trying to learn. It was brought to my attention as I noticed a difference in the TIT temps today, different from the other engine. So, I'll lean according to the left, good TIT, and match fuel flows until I get to the shop. Jg
_________________ Waste no time with fools. They have nothing to lose.
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Post subject: Re: Aerostars Posted: 30 Jun 2018, 10:28 |
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Joined: 03/08/14 Posts: 102 Post Likes: +118 Company: Innovation Two
Aircraft: Piper PA 60
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Yes, that's where having two per engine can be a big help. One caution is that many pilots take the position that two engines should be identical with respect to fuel flows, temperatures etc. Like children - we need to accept that they are completely independent of each other.
Going further - each cylinder is actually a separate 50 HP engine (with common drive train components) and fir a variety of reasons - can venture into it's own reality. This is why a full engine monitor is the only real view to protect engines.
And given the realities of a comprehensive scan and workload - the best way to spot variations is to periodically download and chart the full set of parameters. Mike Busch's website is an excellent resource for this and can be used for free.
For a fee, you can get expert help to interpret the data as well. These engines are north of $100,000 each - and in some cases exceed the monetary value of everything else combined.
It is worth learning about them for a lot of reasons.
Bob Keeping
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