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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 06 Jul 2018, 14:12 
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Joined: 10/18/08
Posts: 1008
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Aircraft: Aerostar 601p/700
You can buy an engine program with a turbine. The economics may or may not make sense, that is another discussion.

I know there is such a program for pistons that I saw on here. I doubt that would work for me. The company that administers the piston engine program goes belly up and you are left with nothing.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2018, 14:31 
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Joined: 08/03/10
Posts: 1562
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Company: D&M Leasing Houston
Location: Katy, TX (KTME)
Aircraft: CitationV/C180
Username Protected wrote:
Adam,

I have followed yours and every other journey into turbine ownership with great interest. I have an opinion :bugeye: as to going into turbine territory as it applies to me.

I think the general consensus that the day to day ownership and operation of a turbine is pretty much on line with high performance pistons to be correct. But! Here are the differences I see.

1. 99% of the maintenance of the Aerostar can be done at my shop, 25 nm away. That being said, they can do 75% of the maintenance of a King Air, MU-2 and Commander. Problems is that what they can't do has to be done somewhere else that is "a trip away" and at four times the effective shop rate.

2. Parts for the Aerostar are readily available and CHEAP relative to the turbine aircraft. I am hard pressed to think of any component in the A* that would cost me over $5,000.

3. On the other hand, the "gotcha's" of all kind of components to the turbine can easily go 30 or 40 thousand BASED ON WHAT I HAVE READ HERE ON BT.

Point is, the potential for knee buckling costs simply do not lurk on the piston horizon.

I have a very good friend who took the turbine leap with an E90 King Air. He had lots of turbine maintenance experience and knows how to get things done at reasonable prices. At first, he did the "ain't gonna cost me any more" dance and song routine, but now, almost ten years later, he is a much wiser and knowledgeable man. His annual maintenance, including the "gotcha's" has averaged $100,000 per year. Were I to go to the airport today and find both engines trashed on the A*, have my shop completely overhaul both, add that cost to the total maintenance cost I have experienced over period of my A* ownership and divide by the 5 years I have owned it, I STILL WOULD NOT HAVE $35,000 PER YEAR IN MAINTENANCE.

The most striking difference is that I have been flying the Aerostar while you have been working on the Commander.

Not saying that to insult you, just pointing out reality.

Jg



The MU2 doesn’t fit the conventional mold of TPs in just about any category. The commanders and King Airs are much more costly planes to own and operate. Almost 3 years into the MU2 ownership and my costs are very close to if not less than many A* and 421 owners have reported. The benefits from the TP for me far outweighs the risks of an engine disintegrating.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2018, 14:41 
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Joined: 01/25/15
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Username Protected wrote:
For that you get about 20-30% more speed, 50-100% more reliability and dispatch rate.


So, what was your dispatch rate during the first 2 years of ownership? :duck:


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2018, 14:50 
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Joined: 02/05/15
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Location: KSLC
Aircraft: Divorced: AC690A-10
Username Protected wrote:

So, what was your dispatch rate during the first 2 years of ownership? :duck:



That’s just cruel. :tape:


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2018, 16:34 
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Joined: 11/25/11
Posts: 9168
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Location: KGNF, Grenada, MS
Aircraft: Baron, 180,195,J-3
Well fellows :D , it seems we have taken our positions one more time; for about the hundredth time. :peace: And not one of us has changed the others opinion one single bit.

There may be a reason for this: that we are all right AS IT APPLIES TO OURSELVES.

A*/Duke/58P/421 vs SETP/MU2/KA etc. You have to throw it all in the wash and see what comes out that fits you.

Truth is, I shouldn't even offer an opinion no more than I use an airplane now, and as much as I'm trying to remove the hassles in my life.

And in that vein, for those of you following my "make life simpler" journey, I FINALLY CLOSED THE SALE ON THAT SHOPPING CENTER LAST WEEK. :bow:

Ya'll fly safe now.

Jg

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Waste no time with fools. They have nothing to lose.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 09 Jul 2018, 16:47 
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Joined: 08/03/10
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Company: D&M Leasing Houston
Location: Katy, TX (KTME)
Aircraft: CitationV/C180
I used to lust after the A*. I have always thought it was an amazing plane. I am blown away by how much it costs to overhaul the engines.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 09 Jul 2018, 17:20 
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Joined: 11/06/10
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Username Protected wrote:
I used to lust after the A*. I have always thought it was an amazing plane. I am blown away by how much it costs to overhaul the engines.


Any of the TIO540/TIO550 engines are amazing expensive.
There is an older thread on here detailing Adam S. firewall forward on a Baron almost a decade ago. It is eye opening even back then.

Tim


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 09 Jul 2018, 17:58 
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Joined: 12/30/15
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Location: Charlotte
Aircraft: Avanti-Citabria
Yup, It’s a bit expensive.

I have heard Planesense will fly one whereever your heart desires in an newish Pilatus PC12 for a mere $3600/hr.

I get to FLY MYSELF In MY AEROSTAR (Also known to have been called
Astrojet, Jetstar and Starship by Controllers watching mach 1.2 speeds on scope) for about the same hourly cost



Minus bout $3k per hour

:dancing:

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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 09 Jul 2018, 18:45 
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Joined: 09/25/08
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Aircraft: 700P, F35, D17
Username Protected wrote:
I used to lust after the A*. I have always thought it was an amazing plane. I am blown away by how much it costs to overhaul the engines.


James, all airplanes are expensive.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2018, 21:44 
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Joined: 05/22/16
Posts: 94
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Location: CYYJ Victoria BC
Aircraft: Mooney M20K
Hey all. I am a current Mooney owner considering a step to Aerostar land.

Are there any PDF of the POH for the 600 and 700 models available online? I can't seem to find any. Trying to decide if I need turbo/pressurization.

My Mooney is a turbo and is great for getting over the rockies, but cost and complexity for the A* is a whole other level.

thanks,

iain


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2018, 21:56 
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Joined: 08/21/14
Posts: 280
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Location: KPDK
Aircraft: C421B MU2-40 Solitai
If you fly cross-country, there is a saying "Once you go pressurized, you never go back."

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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2018, 22:36 
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Aircraft: Aerostar, SR22,RV8,
Username Protected wrote:
Hey all. I am a current Mooney owner considering a step to Aerostar land.

Are there any PDF of the POH for the 600 and 700 models available online? I can't seem to find any. Trying to decide if I need turbo/pressurization.

My Mooney is a turbo and is great for getting over the rockies, but cost and complexity for the A* is a whole other level.

thanks,

iain


I found a (photocopied) 601P POH on Amazon when i was doing my research. I think it was about $40. Not great quality, but taught me what I wanted.

The Aerostar Owners Association has developed a training guide which has much of the information you're probably looking for, and is freely available. I'd recommend starting there.
link

Cost and complexity is indeed another level, but the other advice about pressurization is spot on. My wife used to be very happy with the family Cirrus (three pilots and more than one airplane available) but having experienced the Aerostar she really doesn't like traveling in the Cirrus.

We used to have a TBM700, and from her standpoint the Aerostar is roughly the same, except that she likes it better since the interior is much rattier so I don't hassle her about carrying the dogs.

Wing loading is an often overlooked component of comfort, especially in the mountain west, or down low during summers in the southeast. The Aerostar is -extremely- comfortable in turbulence compared to other GA aircraft.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2018, 23:31 
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Joined: 05/22/16
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Location: CYYJ Victoria BC
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Happy wife, eh? Not making this decision easier... ;)

I have that training materials. I will look closer as was trying to get a sense of fuel burn/performance of the turbo vs non.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2018, 00:21 
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Joined: 08/30/13
Posts: 409
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Company: Cruce Aircraft Services
Location: KPGD
Aircraft: Learjet 55, C-310
Username Protected wrote:
Happy wife, eh? Not making this decision easier... ;)

I have that training materials. I will look closer as was trying to get a sense of fuel burn/performance of the turbo vs non.


All of the speeds and burns are posted in these 91 pages here.

The quick and dirty is 600 will do 200-210kts 6-10,000' at 30/hr. 180kts at 24-26gph
601P 215 at 26-28 LOP 1650 ITT, 235 at 36 ROP
700P 215 at 28 LOP, 265 at 44 ROP

The speeds and flows vary greatly whether you want to run high-low altitudes, ROP or LOP 1550 ITT or 1650 ITT, low compression cyclinders-high compression, winglets, which gross weight you have, winglets, intercoolers, short props-long props-no props (aerostar jet)


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2018, 10:40 
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Joined: 12/19/09
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Company: Premier Bone and Joint
Location: Wyoming
Aircraft: BE90,HUSK,MU-2
I think some of those speeds might be slightly optimistic for typical planes operated at typical weights. I flight planned 215 at 30gph in my non-inter cooled straight 601-P (intercooling makes them quite a bit faster). In my more recent 601-P/700 Superstar my plan was 245 at 44gph. No question some airframes will occasionally cruise at 265 with that fuel burn, but I believe they are the exception, not the rule.

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