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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 04 Mar 2021, 10:53 
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Aircraft: 1969 Aerostar 600,
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They’re all excellent trainer’s. I don’t see any as a standout above the rest and there are quite a few that are listed on the AOA web site under “friends of AOA.” They’re pretty much all over the country also.

There is no magic bullet to flying an Aerostar. Biggest take away is just don’t be slow close to the ground. It’s really an easy airplane to fly. Just don’t be slow close to the ground.

And, the most important thing to remember when in training, or, any other time for that matter when flying an Aerostar, “just don’t be slow when close to the ground.”

So, before you start your training and after you start your training, remember one thing,
“don’t be slow when close to the ground.”

And, after you have completed your training, remember one thing, “don’t be slow when close to the ground.”



So if you could give one piece of advice to a new A* pilot, what would it be?

:scratch: Let me think about this for a minute...

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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 04 Mar 2021, 11:23 
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Tom,

I say fly by numbers, not keep speed up. :)

Ron,

There are three talking points I would tell any new A* owner/pilot.
1. Fly by numbers. The very flat wings perform closer to a swept wing with a very steep area of reverse command. This takes many pilots by surprise. It has been a number of years but if memory servers you could fly around 85 knots at 65% power or 180 knots. Ldmax was 117 if I recall correctly, and you could maintain that around 35-40% power. (I had a 700, with the bigger engines)
2. Learn the systems. They are so simple that they are complicated. The systems on the plane take a lot of the operational complexity away and use extremely simple designs that approach a lot of problems sideways. e.g. Fuel system, unless you are unbalanced, the fuel system pretty much auto levels for you.
3. Have fun

Tim


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 04 Mar 2021, 11:44 
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Joined: 02/04/10
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Company: Northern Aviation, LLC
Aircraft: C45H, Aerostar, T28B
Years ago when I bought my A* blog sites such as this were just coming on line, therefore I didn't have the "benefit" of others advice. I simply bought the plane and flew it back to AK as if it was any other airplane. Yes the A* has a few differing flight characteristics, but so do a lot of planes. My Lake amphib, Glasair, or even the Skybolt have a few tricks up their sleeve that can trip you up if you don't pay attention.

Now I'm far from an A* aficionado, but I have flown and maintained one enough to know a lot of the "lore", is just that. The A* is one of the finest flying airplanes I have ever flown, the handling and performance is simply in a class by itself.

The issue of "Don't get slow..." while true to a point and applies to all aircraft, is in my opinion more a reflection of folks misunderstanding of the aerodynamics of the A* compared to most other light GA airplanes than a reflection of the actual low speed handling of the plane. In fact the A* has better control response/authority at 80 than my twin Comanche does. The fact it was certified without needing a stall warner shoud tell you something about the actual low speed handling.

How the plane does differ, and where folks can get themselves in trouble, is how it very quickly builds induced drag at slow speeds compared to most other light twins. Especially with full flaps. The control surfaces on the A* are deceptively small, but very effective. Power applications to correct a falling AS or increasing sink rate takes a much larger dose of throttle than what most are accustomed to. Think little jet. Those of you that have flown the L39 will know exactly what I mean; power off and slowing down is a recipe for excitement. Fortunately the throttle response of a piston is whole lot better than an old jet, but you still have to do it at the proper time, and in the proper amount.

The key to successful and stress-free landings, especially on short runways, is just like any other airplane; airspeed control. Not too much, and defiantly not to little. The key to that is also just like other planes; practicing slow flight. Go way back to those training days of yesteryear and try flying around and slowly decreasing airspeeds to get a true feel for what the plane will do. Pick a speed, make a circle in both directions and differing bank angles, drop a few knots and repeat. Most of you will be utterly amazed how good the A* flies slow. You will also be amazed that you can easily land on a 2,500' runway with little braking.

Jeff


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 04 Mar 2021, 11:55 
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I’ll save Tom some thinking time:

Practice until you are proficient

Not until you get it right (once)

Until you can get it right every time.

Practice take offs
Practice landings
Practice approaches

Practice until the steps for each are automatic, this doesn’t mean you don’t use checklists and flows to avoid forgetting something important, it means that you have developed muscle memory that frees your brain to deal with what makes whatever you are doing special.

Most of the Aerostar’s we lose are due to pilots who (for whatever reason) fail to perform the basics adequately.

Practice


On the subject of instructors:

An Aerostar instructor has two interrelated roles:

1. Teaching you how the airplane should be flown.

2. And when you and the instructor are in the aircraft training, staying far enough ahead of the airplane (and you) so as to keep a mistake made by the student (you) from putting the flight at risk.

Different instructors have different methods of accomplishing #1, and different students learn from different instructing styles.

Pick an instructor who’s style of teaching and interpersonal skills are compatible with your skills, aptitude for learning, and personality type.

Forrest

:bud:


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 04 Mar 2021, 14:23 
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Joined: 01/05/11
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Aircraft: 1969 Aerostar 600,
:scratch: I forgot...


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 04 Mar 2021, 23:48 
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Joined: 11/15/09
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Username Protected wrote:
So if you could give one piece of advice to a new A* pilot, what would it be?

Learn to taxi somewhere with WIDE taxiways.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 04 Mar 2021, 23:57 
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Username Protected wrote:
I am hoping to join the ranks of Aerostar owners and operators and I have a question. I find the level of expertise on BT to be outstanding, so with that in mind, my question is about training.
Excluding the high dollar schools like SimCom, etc, who would you recommend for initial and recurrent training? In every marque there is usually at least one individual who percolates to top of most peoples list of excellent trainers. Howell for MU-2, Bob Hoffman for Dukes, etc. Is there someone who most operators would agree is the "best" in Aerostar training?
Thanks in advance for your input.


I trained with Don Smith in Alabama and liked it a lot. He's got 18000hrs+ on Aerostars alone and even helped build them at the factory in Santa Maria, so his knowledge runs deep. Good guy. Taught Tom Cruise to fly them for the movie American Made.

There's also a guy named Larry something based out of Florida, that I've heard really good things about. I'm sure someone can fill in who I'm talking about.

_________________
Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 05 Mar 2021, 00:34 
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What Jeff said. Like Ted Smith’s “other” airplane, the Aerostar handles best in class, it’s predictable, and operates over an incredibly large envelope.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 05 Mar 2021, 14:25 
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All good advice as above. the big reason that people talk about watching the airspeed is a stall will kill you. I think that half of the accidents out there even when it is a minor problem or inattention to airspeed end in a smoking hole in the ground because they stalled near the ground.

because of its thin, highly loaded, wing , the drag really goes up as you get near approach speeds. couple that with the fact the feel doesn't change much as you slow down ( it is really well balanced) and the really important fact that a stall in an Aerostar takes a huge amount of altitude to recover from. The recovery takes at least 500 ft if you are right on it.

Thus what is a recoverable event in most light light aircraft, A stall during the approach, where you add power and you are flying again, is deadly in the Aerostar.

Don't get slow without doing it intentionally

The Aerostar is very strong and flying it above the desired speed is no problem except for what it does to landing distance.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 05 Mar 2021, 21:18 
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Aircraft: 1969 Aerostar 600,
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Aerostar 600A Stall Speeds


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2021, 09:46 
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Username Protected wrote:
They’re all excellent trainer’s. I don’t see any as a standout above the rest and there are quite a few that are listed on the AOA web site under “friends of AOA.” They’re pretty much all over the country also.

There is no magic bullet to flying an Aerostar. Biggest take away is just don’t be slow close to the ground. It’s really an easy airplane to fly. Just don’t be slow close to the ground.

And, the most important thing to remember when in training, or, any other time for that matter when flying an Aerostar, “just don’t be slow when close to the ground.”

So, before you start your training and after you start your training, remember one thing,
“don’t be slow when close to the ground.”

And, after you have completed your training, remember one thing, “don’t be slow when close to the ground.”



So if you could give one piece of advice to a new A* pilot, what would it be?



Well, I didn’t use the green font because i’m colorblind. I was actually being sarcastic but what I got in return were responses that turned out to be gold.

Sometimes the best advice is unexpected. Thanks to all who responded.
_________________
Ron

"It rubs the lotion on it's skin"


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 18 Mar 2021, 11:52 
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Joined: 06/16/09
Posts: 78
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Location: Wichita
Aircraft: C90B, C90A, 940, A*
I too am grateful for this forum as well as the owner's organization for a place to ask real questions and get user answers. I've had about 20 years now of owning and flying the same ac (twice) and have experienced most of the joys and travails that go along with this legend.

It strikes me that this aircraft simply has a clearer set of rules associated with ownership, maintenance and operation than a usual piston aircraft; more like a turbine or jet aircraft. And accordingly a set of consequences that go along with going outside those clear lines, the boundaries are not a mystery.

So the short response to "the most important thing" for me is "play by the rules", wherever they apply.

I love the Astar so much that I hunted down and repurchased the same one. Unequalled and balanced flying characteristics.

I've recently purchased a TBM and unfortunately the mission of the Astar for me is disappearing. Not sure whether to try to move it or use it for a diesel testbed - to me that is the answer to one of the more glaring challenges in operations -


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 19 Mar 2021, 19:04 
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Joined: 11/21/13
Posts: 101
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Location: Anniston, AL
Aircraft: 76 Aerostar 600A
When Trey sold his 600A, I was the lucky buyer. My total multi was 9.6 hours. Trey rode with me through stall, a few landings and we pulled an engine before I headed home on a clear day.
I had read manual and all of Forrest's posts on speeds. Understand hydraulics and fuel system.
The 600A has no cowl flaps and negligible pitch change with flaps. Landing is no more challenging than any other new plane. Later rode with Lester Kyle, based on FL. Great guy, great fun.
My only fear with plane is kerosene. In 100 hours of flying her, two linemen have said, "100 low lead, right?"


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2021, 06:07 
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Aircraft: 1969 Aerostar 600,
My plane only gets fueled within an hour before departure and only when I am standing there with the line man putting fuel into my tanks. Whether in a blizzard, or, scorching heat, it doesn’t matter, I will always shadow the guy, or, gal putting fuel into my airplane.
I am the only person who removes the fuel caps and I am the only person who replaces them. No exception.

My home airport is well aware of my fueling procedure. It’s never been a problem. When I travel and am staying at the local FBO, I am always very explicit that my plane will not be fueled until the day I depart and only when I request the plane to be fueled along with my presence on the ramp. They are also instructed to not remove the fuel caps. I tell them that I will remove them and replace them.

To this date I have not had a problem. Knock on aluminum.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2021, 09:41 
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Aircraft: Aerostar
Misfueling isn't always due to a screw up by a fueler.

Sometimes the wrong fuel ends up in the tank the fueler is fueling from.

I make it a point to run both engines at least 10 minutes before taking a runway for takeoff any time the plane has been fueled.

On my first flight of the day this isn’t a problem, takes longer than that to get oil temps over 50C.

But on a VFR departure after quick turn at an uncontrolled field there are times when I could easily launch in 5 minutes after start up.

My theory is that if I have a load of bad gas, ten minutes is enough time for me to see a spike in CHTs at take off power.


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