Can’t beat high and pressurized

Here’s an inspirational clip for beech drivers,

22,000’ 230KTAS 37GPH in a straight 601P with winglets and intercoolers.
https://youtube.com/shorts/DAuZa58q2Bw?feature=share

Forrest - I went back to page 6 and this is what I found.


Nothing about why.

That said, I do recall getting "rebuffed" by Bob and yourself on my very first post at A-F.

Never mind that I graciously introduced myself and got no "Welcome to the Club" ...

Then you chimed in with "I encourage the OP and anyone else dissatisfied with the quality of advice we offer here to sign up with the nice folks over at AOA, ..." I never did thank-you for the heart-felt welcome Forrest.

I actively participate in over 10 Aviation Forums , 6 of which are private & paid for subscriptions : AOA, CAAF, CFO, COPA, MMOPA & TTCF .

I have NEVER been treated so aggressively from the get-go, at any of these Forums.

My guess is that Bob's and your corrosive attitudes didn't go down well with the establishment at AOA, and so be it.

BTW: AOA is worth every penny of the 27,500 I pay them annually.

Michael,

For the non-A-F readers:

Current (11/28/21) membership @ A-F is 554

I hunted around and found the post you referred to.

I used “dissatisfied” as my search word.

There is no way to be nice about it, so I will be blunt:

I’m not going to copy an paste an exchange from another forum so gentle readers who are not and do not wish to be A-F members will have to take my word on the accuracy of my summery.

1. You expressed interest in a former Conair 600 with the Piper water rudder.

2. An exchange ensued where you were provided background information on the Piper mod to the Aerostar airframe.

3. You made a statement the the VG kit that AAC developed to solve the FAA’s issue without the water rudder was overpriced @$3500.

4. That statement engendered some pushback as the value of AAC to current Aerostar owners is significant and while most of us don’t enjoy spending money on our planes we all are grateful the we have a place to spend money to buy the things that keep our planes flying.

5. You made posts expressing frustration with the information you had received in the exchange and said you would be joining the AOA.

6. I made a responding post expressing my shock that we had an A-F member who was dissatisfied as to the quality of information provided.
In rereading my response, I think I stayed within the BT rules of engagement.
Habit I suppose. I answered a different question about the appearance of the Main Gear Side braces by posting a link (now dead) to an AAC picture of the new style side braces.

7. Follow on posts provided you with contact info for a fellow in France who owned an Aerostar.

8. I read what appeared to me to be a sincere thank you from you for the information you have received.

Feelings change…..

People don’t change (much).


That includes me.

I received a call yesterday afternoon from a BT and A-F member asking about the reasons for the split and the continued existence of the A-F.
He had called me for advice in his initial consideration of buying an Aerostar, as is my way, I am sure I tried to talk him out of buying one, but he bought one and in-spite of experiencing whatever unfortunate and expensive challenges (that I’d him warned about) he’s a happy Aerostar owner.

That’s a real Aerostar guy for you.

He doesn’t let the practical aspects of owning and flying a 40+ year old airplane get in the way of the joy he gets from flying HIS airplane.



When I transitioned from asking for advice to being a public offerer of advice I realized that it was going to be a practical net loss for me.

Folks with differing opinions would inevitably argue with me and depending on the tone of the argument, they or spectators to the argument might decide I wasn’t a nice fellow.

On the other hand, folks who appreciated the help I had given them would appreciate and think of me as a nice fellow.

In retrospect, I’m about even, I get cold pricklies from some and warm fuzzies from others, it’s pretty much a wash (although I do wish for some -undeserved- forgivenesses from some of the folks I’ve offended)

I haven’t been sued or threatened with legal action although I was accused of illegal acts during the early days of the rift. I put that down as a negative.

Some folks go through life picking the easy path, many are quite successful, I am not that smart, I do what seems fun or interesting, after 60 years of living I realize that in-spite of my poor judgment, persistence and a lot of good luck has left me with a pretty good life.
I am not a role model, I shouldn’t be.

I do know some stuff.

And on a good day I enjoy helping a sincere questioner gain understanding.

On a less good day my posts are a chance to show off (whether that is an accomplishment or foolishness - opinions are going to differ)

I believe most of my posts on A-F are in line with the 1st goal.

Over here on BT I suspect that ratio varies from “most” on occasion.

My reward is an occasional like or a thank you from folks I rarely get to meet.

That’s my deal, and I believe that’s the deal of the other advice givers on A-F.

We all wear just one hat.

None of us charge for what we do for the Aerostar community.


On the other hand:

(Please keep in mind: everything on this post, especially the following, is opinion.)


The AOA is different.

It holds itself and it’s officers and it’s designated gurus out as support for its members.

The AOA charges for what it does.

Not only does the AOA offer support, it offers solutions.

For some that aspect is a vital part of the AOA’s reason for existence and for their association with the AOA.

Sometimes a referral is good for a member, I have used an AOA referred insurance broker for 14 years.

For others, the experience is far from ideal.



I believe that Bob’s and my investigation into the facts behind a new AOA member who had a very bad experience, directly led to our being removed as President and VP of the AOA Board in an emergency meeting.

That removal led to the creation of the A-F.


All of this is old news.

Current AOA members have to decide for themselves whether they are happy with what they receive from their membership.
Current AOA Board members have to decide (as a group) whether they are happy with how the organization is being run and if any changes are warranted.

Not my circus.

I hope this long post provides an adequate explanation without unduly opening old wounds.

Nothing about why.

That said, I do recall getting "rebuffed" by Bob and yourself on my very first post at A-F.

Never mind that I graciously introduced myself and got no "Welcome to the Club" ...

Then you chimed in with "I encourage the OP and anyone else dissatisfied with the quality of advice we offer here to sign up with the nice folks over at AOA, ..." I never did thank-you for the heart-felt welcome Forrest.

I actively participate in over 10 Aviation Forums , 5 of which are private & paid for subscriptions : AOA, CAAF, CFO, MMOPA & TTCF .

I have NEVER been treated so aggressively from the get-go, at any of these Forums.

My guess is that Bob's and your corrosive attitudes didn't go down well with the establishment at AOA, and so be it.

BTW: AOA is worth every penny of the 27,500 I pay them annually.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7Sp_J-3WW8

I couldn’t resist Forrest. Sometimes we just have to laugh at ourselves. One of my favorite movies of all time.

And the total number of posts is 2,500 , of which 1/5 are yours Forrest.

For the non A-F readers: A-F is useless.

Michael,

When I departed AOA I had the most posts of any member.

Maybe I still do?

As for the value of those posts or my posts on BT or on A-F, I leave that to those that read them.

To the best of my limited ability, I attempt to be informative, and entertaining enough not to be boring.

The A-F was never intended to be a place to share cat pictures.

It’s an unbiased, uncensored library of knowledge as well as being a place to ask questions and get useful answers.

Today there were posts about cracking of the rear windows and a member who had an interesting engine problem.

I’m glad you are happy with what you get from your association with the AOA.

If it is a good fit, and you like the magazine, and the advice and recommendations you have received are working for you that’s wonderful.

I’m glad you had an option.

On the other hand:

550+ folks have decided to sign up for A-F, some are fairly active posters (like me) others are lurkers or no longer have an interest in what the A-F offers (like you).

Whatever

I believe that there is benefit to all owners from more owners belonging to an owners association.

For the folks who choose not to be AOA members, the A-F offers a choice.

To folks like Bill L, who are members of both I say “welcome”.

To folks who say the A-F ought not exist, for whatever reason….

And the total number of posts is 2,500 , of which 1/5 are yours Forrest.

For the non A-F readers: A-F is useless.

Well said Tom. Completely agree.

I was a member of the AOA for many years. Right around the time Forrest and Bob left, I joined the Board there. I participated for a bit in the AF but become less active and then my login no longer worked so I figured I had been “removed.” That was fine with me not because I felt the AF had little value, but because I was already a member in several aviation forums and I was spending too much time on them already. I served many years on the AOA Board including a couple as President, but later when I sold my Aerostar and moved on to the MU-2 it didn’t seem right to remain on the Board. I still attend many of the annual meetings and have made great friends there. I still post some on the AOA forum.
I don’t have any “problem” with the AF or the concept of having more than one forum serving a similar interest. Options are good, and so is competition. This is America after all!
That much said, I must also say the following: Forrest, I always considered you very knowledgeable, friendly and a great source of information. I have enjoyed reading of your adventures with the Aerostar. But the personal attack email exchanges I received immediately after I assumed my position on the AOA Board from your partner Bob were so extreme, “over the top” rude, suggesting (possibly hoping) that I will soon be in a smoking hole in the ground or a party to a massive lawsuit if I follow the advice of AOA members…I was flabbergasted. I had only just assumed my role on the Board and had no part in whatever you and Bob felt had happened there. I’d love to sit down with you some time over drinks and talk airplanes…admin redacted

Don’t know anything about the age old owner group drama but just wanted to say that when I had questions, Forrest was very generous with his time and entirely correct in his characterizations of what it takes to make an Aerostar work. The fact that Jim Christy is there to support the airframe cannot be undervalued. And the AOA is awesome too - Ken has promptly responded to my calls and texts with my dumb questions from dark ramps across the country.

Doc,
Bob is my friend.

Forrest

Doc,

I wasn’t included in whatever exchange you had with Bob so I can not speak to it.

That said:

Bob is not a nut and I shared (and share) his concerns about the inevitable consequences of continuing to follow the path the remaining AOA Board members (plus those they recruited to replace us) had chosen.

“Normalization of deviance”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normalization_of_deviance


In a nutshell, it’s all fun and games thumbing one’s nose at the ‘man’ until it isn’t.

And

One of the most important jobs a manager of an organization has is evaluating complaints.
The validity of the complaint must be determined (correctly).
And the appropriate response both to the individual lodging the complaint and to whether (or not) to make changes to the organization.

The same applies to life.

One (a smart accomplished person) can go through life ignoring feedback that doesn’t fit with one’s self-image and still do alright, until the day when reality bites.

Love to have that drink one day!

Guys,

This happened seven years ago. It is water under the bridge, let it go.

Tim

I “let it go” a long time ago, that’s why I’ve never even spoken of it since the incident happened. But people were asking on this forum what went down, and if folks are upset with one another of if members of the various forums are unhappy about the existence of the other. It seems that there were plentiful reasons on both sides for unhappiness and most folks have moved on with no strong concerns on either side about the existence of the other forum, but neither side probably wants to call it “all good” and join back up into one forum (nor is that necessary for folks to get benefits of each since some join one, others join the other and some join both…best of both worlds).