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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 28 Jan 2019, 12:49 
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Location: CYYJ Victoria BC
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I am too tall for these planes also and have looked into this. Most taller folks get the foam cut down or have the seat frame welded/modified.

Last one i looked at had the inner skylight windows popped out and my head contacted the outer window.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 28 Jan 2019, 18:06 
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Username Protected wrote:
Can anyone tell me the cockpit width? Google results are a little inconsistent.


3’10”

It’s a constant width all the way to the back of the cabin

Thanks James. I tried one on for size yesterday and I see one of the reasons they're so fast...it's not a big airplane.

My Skymaster is a small/light twin, but I didn't find the pilots seat of the Aerostar to be fundamentally roomier. In both airplanes my left shoulder is against the left window. The Aerostar has more legroom/seat travel. the Aerostar has one or two more inches between the front seats. The Skymaster has a lot more head/headset clearance. I'm 6'2", 200lbs so not huge by any means.

Some days being a pilot makes me wish I was the one of those 5'10", 170lb guys that airplane designers seem to use.

Last edited on 28 Jan 2019, 18:11, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 28 Jan 2019, 18:08 
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Username Protected wrote:
I am too tall for these planes also and have looked into this. Most taller folks get the foam cut down or have the seat frame welded/modified.

Last one i looked at had the inner skylight windows popped out and my head contacted the outer window.

Yeah it was weird yesterday....I definitely found my head right up & in the skylight.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 28 Jan 2019, 18:14 
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Joined: 12/30/15
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My Aerostar is currently a 4 seater - both middle seats out.
I am 6’0” and 200 lbs

In Columbia 350 I used to have to put my hand on the ceiling to keep from hitting my head in moderate turbulence. Non issue in Aerostar.

Plenty of room for me and family of 4.

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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 28 Jan 2019, 19:35 
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Joined: 02/04/10
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Company: Northern Aviation, LLC
Aircraft: C45H, Aerostar, T28B
If you can believe the internet the A* cabin is 1-2” shorter, 4” wider, and 9-18” longer than a B55/58.

Jeff


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2019, 13:45 
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When I had my turbo wastegate arm break just after rotation, I leaned the mixture significantly and was able to get back partial power, but I was only at about 6000 feet. Higher up that wouldn’t work well. I’ve also had a couple 80-100 mile single engine runs in my Aerostar including one in snow and light icing culminating in an ILS. I would certainly agree that the Aerostar flies very well on one engine; it’s a great design...I would have been even happier with the plane if it didn’t so often require me to explore how well it flies on one engine.

Can you expand on that a bit/list the causes of engine failures or shutdowns?

Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2019, 15:33 
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Aircraft: C90,340,PA31T,PC-12
Just for clarification, the waste gate arm that broke on that airplane had a waste gate supplied by a third party vendor who "overhauled" it by cutting the arm off the one piece investment cast factory part and welding it to a shaft they supplied. I don't recommend that for this exact reason. It was not an Aerostar factory part.
Jim Christy
VP Aerostar Aircraft Corp.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2019, 15:40 
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Username Protected wrote:
Just for clarification, the waste gate arm that broke on that airplane had a waste gate supplied by a third party vendor who "overhauled" it by cutting the arm off the one piece investment cast factory part and welding it to a shaft they supplied. I don't recommend that for this exact reason. It was not an Aerostar factory part.
Jim Christy
VP Aerostar Aircraft Corp.

Wow who ever did that needs a tune up


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 01 Feb 2019, 01:30 
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Joined: 12/19/09
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Company: Premier Bone and Joint
Location: Wyoming
Aircraft: BE90,HUSK,MU-2
For me, they were as follows (over about 8 years):
1) wastegate fracture on rotation (rich-out). Partial power restoration with leaning, return to field for landing. Moderate stress due to low altitude at failure.
2) second wastegate fracture during takeoff after fuel stop on cross-country trip (I wasn't flying yet so no danger), just inconvenience of taking airlines home while waiting for replacement part (which, after the second fracture, was acquired directly from Aerostar Aircraft, not Kneisley). No stress, just annoying.
3) While in a holding pattern in heavy snow with home field below minimums, impact snow accumulated on the front faces of both nacelles (wing boots were not needed, they remained clean) creating a 4 to 6 inch mass of snow and ice. Oil coolers were completely blocked and engines began to overheat (air intakes were still OK). Diverted to another location and (thankfully) made it there before engines were damaged. High stress (had family and friends in the plane, night)...and I absolutely didn't see that risk coming.
4) Number one cylinder sheared bolts and partially separated from block, vibration then caused intake manifold bolts to fail and fall away (noticed it on engine monitor, feathered engine before complete failure). Moderate stress, plane flew fine, VFR/day...but expensive and 4 months down time.
5) Takeoff on rather cold day (about -20F) in snowstorm. While IMC about 10 minutes after departure, right engine oil temp began to climb rapidly. Snow did not block the oil cooler this time, the cooler froze. (I had 1/3 taped closed for the earlier part of the winter when it was really cold, but had removed the tape as it was now spring...but this was a cold snap and I didn't put the tape back on before flight). Temperature exceeded redline and I feathered the engine and shot an ILS to near minumums in snow with one engine...high stress...ticked off at myself for removing the tape and at the engines for being so fickle.
6) After cylinder failure noted in #4 above, engine was rebuilt with an oil breather tube that was not slotted inside nacelle. Again flying in ice at high altitude, breather tube aperture froze over below engine nacelle, 2 hours into flight at FL240 oil dipstick popped out and vented my engine oil slowly all over the nacelle. Diverted while watching temp rise and pressure decrease. Feathered engine about 30 miles from landing. Low stress (VFR, daytime) no engine damage, just had to replace breather tube and do lots of cleanup. Later on, on same trip, the shower of sparks ignition unit failed and grounded the plane (replaced on site) then the Autopilot servo failed on the way home at which point my wife (who was along for many of these failures) indicated she wanted me to find a new ride.

So...I now fly a plane with engines that eat snow and ice for breakfast (with auto ignition)and have very few moving parts that just go round and round. And yes...I still fly a plane with more than one engine as my experience dictates it's not a bad idea to do so.

_________________
Thomas


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 01 Feb 2019, 02:43 
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Username Protected wrote:
For me, they were as follows (over about 8 years):
1) wastegate fracture on rotation (rich-out). Partial power restoration with leaning, return to field for landing. Moderate stress due to low altitude at failure.
2) second wastegate fracture during takeoff after fuel stop on cross-country trip (I wasn't flying yet so no danger), just inconvenience of taking airlines home while waiting for replacement part (which, after the second fracture, was acquired directly from Aerostar Aircraft, not Kneisley). No stress, just annoying.
3) While in a holding pattern in heavy snow with home field below minimums, impact snow accumulated on the front faces of both nacelles (wing boots were not needed, they remained clean) creating a 4 to 6 inch mass of snow and ice. Oil coolers were completely blocked and engines began to overheat (air intakes were still OK). Diverted to another location and (thankfully) made it there before engines were damaged. High stress (had family and friends in the plane, night)...and I absolutely didn't see that risk coming.
4) Number one cylinder sheared bolts and partially separated from block, vibration then caused intake manifold bolts to fail and fall away (noticed it on engine monitor, feathered engine before complete failure). Moderate stress, plane flew fine, VFR/day...but expensive and 4 months down time.
5) Takeoff on rather cold day (about -20F) in snowstorm. While IMC about 10 minutes after departure, right engine oil temp began to climb rapidly. Snow did not block the oil cooler this time, the cooler froze. (I had 1/3 taped closed for the earlier part of the winter when it was really cold, but had removed the tape as it was now spring...but this was a cold snap and I didn't put the tape back on before flight). Temperature exceeded redline and I feathered the engine and shot an ILS to near minumums in snow with one engine...high stress...ticked off at myself for removing the tape and at the engines for being so fickle.
6) After cylinder failure noted in #4 above, engine was rebuilt with an oil breather tube that was not slotted inside nacelle. Again flying in ice at high altitude, breather tube aperture froze over below engine nacelle, 2 hours into flight at FL240 oil dipstick popped out and vented my engine oil slowly all over the nacelle. Diverted while watching temp rise and pressure decrease. Feathered engine about 30 miles from landing. Low stress (VFR, daytime) no engine damage, just had to replace breather tube and do lots of cleanup. Later on, on same trip, the shower of sparks ignition unit failed and grounded the plane (replaced on site) then the Autopilot servo failed on the way home at which point my wife (who was along for many of these failures) indicated she wanted me to find a new ride.

So...I now fly a plane with engines that eat snow and ice for breakfast (with auto ignition)and have very few moving parts that just go round and round. And yes...I still fly a plane with more than one engine as my experience dictates it's not a bad idea to do so.



Wow! You saw more crap in 8 years than I've seen in over 30 years of flying for a living. Oh, and well done on all accounts. I'll ride with you anytime...unless it's in an A*.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 01 Feb 2019, 03:51 
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Joined: 12/18/12
Posts: 784
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Location: Europe
Aircraft: Aerostar 600A
Seems the A* is showing it's SoCal ADN :rock:

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Aerostar 600A


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 01 Feb 2019, 08:45 
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Joined: 12/17/13
Posts: 6322
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Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
Username Protected wrote:
For me, they were as follows (over about 8 years):
1) wastegate fracture on rotation (rich-out). Partial power restoration with leaning, return to field for landing. Moderate stress due to low altitude at failure.
2) second wastegate fracture during takeoff after fuel stop on cross-country trip (I wasn't flying yet so no danger), just inconvenience of taking airlines home while waiting for replacement part (which, after the second fracture, was acquired directly from Aerostar Aircraft, not Kneisley). No stress, just annoying.
3) While in a holding pattern in heavy snow with home field below minimums, impact snow accumulated on the front faces of both nacelles (wing boots were not needed, they remained clean) creating a 4 to 6 inch mass of snow and ice. Oil coolers were completely blocked and engines began to overheat (air intakes were still OK). Diverted to another location and (thankfully) made it there before engines were damaged. High stress (had family and friends in the plane, night)...and I absolutely didn't see that risk coming.
4) Number one cylinder sheared bolts and partially separated from block, vibration then caused intake manifold bolts to fail and fall away (noticed it on engine monitor, feathered engine before complete failure). Moderate stress, plane flew fine, VFR/day...but expensive and 4 months down time.
5) Takeoff on rather cold day (about -20F) in snowstorm. While IMC about 10 minutes after departure, right engine oil temp began to climb rapidly. Snow did not block the oil cooler this time, the cooler froze. (I had 1/3 taped closed for the earlier part of the winter when it was really cold, but had removed the tape as it was now spring...but this was a cold snap and I didn't put the tape back on before flight). Temperature exceeded redline and I feathered the engine and shot an ILS to near minumums in snow with one engine...high stress...ticked off at myself for removing the tape and at the engines for being so fickle.
6) After cylinder failure noted in #4 above, engine was rebuilt with an oil breather tube that was not slotted inside nacelle. Again flying in ice at high altitude, breather tube aperture froze over below engine nacelle, 2 hours into flight at FL240 oil dipstick popped out and vented my engine oil slowly all over the nacelle. Diverted while watching temp rise and pressure decrease. Feathered engine about 30 miles from landing. Low stress (VFR, daytime) no engine damage, just had to replace breather tube and do lots of cleanup. Later on, on same trip, the shower of sparks ignition unit failed and grounded the plane (replaced on site) then the Autopilot servo failed on the way home at which point my wife (who was along for many of these failures) indicated she wanted me to find a new ride.

So...I now fly a plane with engines that eat snow and ice for breakfast (with auto ignition)and have very few moving parts that just go round and round. And yes...I still fly a plane with more than one engine as my experience dictates it's not a bad idea to do so.


That's a lot of high stress situations, Thomas. Not fun at all. I'm not sure I would coped as well a you did! :bugeye:

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Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 01 Feb 2019, 10:32 
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Joined: 05/31/13
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Company: Docking Drawer
Location: KCCR
Aircraft: C425
Quote:
So...I now fly a plane with engines that eat snow and ice for breakfast

Yup, I had 4 failures in 10 years in my aftermarket turbo charged commander. It was a great flying plane on one engine, and it had to be. If you fly regularly in weather like what you describe there is only one solution: turbine. About a year before I bought the 425 I was over the central sierras (13,000' mountains) at night with pax, and I had a failing turbo on one engine and a failing cylinder on the other. Made it home without shutting one down but enough was enough...

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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 01 Feb 2019, 16:32 
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Joined: 11/25/16
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Location: 2IS
Aircraft: C501
Username Protected wrote:
For me, they were as follows (over about 8 years):
1) wastegate fracture on rotation (rich-out). Partial power restoration with leaning, return to field for landing. Moderate stress due to low altitude at failure.
2) second wastegate fracture during takeoff after fuel stop on cross-country trip (I wasn't flying yet so no danger), just inconvenience of taking airlines home while waiting for replacement part (which, after the second fracture, was acquired directly from Aerostar Aircraft, not Kneisley). No stress, just annoying.
3) While in a holding pattern in heavy snow with home field below minimums, impact snow accumulated on the front faces of both nacelles (wing boots were not needed, they remained clean) creating a 4 to 6 inch mass of snow and ice. Oil coolers were completely blocked and engines began to overheat (air intakes were still OK). Diverted to another location and (thankfully) made it there before engines were damaged. High stress (had family and friends in the plane, night)...and I absolutely didn't see that risk coming.
4) Number one cylinder sheared bolts and partially separated from block, vibration then caused intake manifold bolts to fail and fall away (noticed it on engine monitor, feathered engine before complete failure). Moderate stress, plane flew fine, VFR/day...but expensive and 4 months down time.
5) Takeoff on rather cold day (about -20F) in snowstorm. While IMC about 10 minutes after departure, right engine oil temp began to climb rapidly. Snow did not block the oil cooler this time, the cooler froze. (I had 1/3 taped closed for the earlier part of the winter when it was really cold, but had removed the tape as it was now spring...but this was a cold snap and I didn't put the tape back on before flight). Temperature exceeded redline and I feathered the engine and shot an ILS to near minumums in snow with one engine...high stress...ticked off at myself for removing the tape and at the engines for being so fickle.
6) After cylinder failure noted in #4 above, engine was rebuilt with an oil breather tube that was not slotted inside nacelle. Again flying in ice at high altitude, breather tube aperture froze over below engine nacelle, 2 hours into flight at FL240 oil dipstick popped out and vented my engine oil slowly all over the nacelle. Diverted while watching temp rise and pressure decrease. Feathered engine about 30 miles from landing. Low stress (VFR, daytime) no engine damage, just had to replace breather tube and do lots of cleanup. Later on, on same trip, the shower of sparks ignition unit failed and grounded the plane (replaced on site) then the Autopilot servo failed on the way home at which point my wife (who was along for many of these failures) indicated she wanted me to find a new ride.

So...I now fly a plane with engines that eat snow and ice for breakfast (with auto ignition)and have very few moving parts that just go round and round. And yes...I still fly a plane with more than one engine as my experience dictates it's not a bad idea to do so.

Yikes. That's pretty staggering list. "May you live in interesting times."


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 01 Feb 2019, 18:34 
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Joined: 08/18/11
Posts: 320
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Company: American Aviation, Inc.
Location: Hayden Lake, ID
Aircraft: C90,340,PA31T,PC-12
Username Protected wrote:
For me, they were as follows (over about 8 years):
1) wastegate fracture on rotation (rich-out). Partial power restoration with leaning, return to field for landing. Moderate stress due to low altitude at failure.
2) second wastegate fracture during takeoff after fuel stop on cross-country trip (I wasn't flying yet so no danger), just inconvenience of taking airlines home while waiting for replacement part (which, after the second fracture, was acquired directly from Aerostar Aircraft, not Kneisley). No stress, just annoying.
3) While in a holding pattern in heavy snow with home field below minimums, impact snow accumulated on the front faces of both nacelles (wing boots were not needed, they remained clean) creating a 4 to 6 inch mass of snow and ice. Oil coolers were completely blocked and engines began to overheat (air intakes were still OK). Diverted to another location and (thankfully) made it there before engines were damaged. High stress (had family and friends in the plane, night)...and I absolutely didn't see that risk coming.
4) Number one cylinder sheared bolts and partially separated from block, vibration then caused intake manifold bolts to fail and fall away (noticed it on engine monitor, feathered engine before complete failure). Moderate stress, plane flew fine, VFR/day...but expensive and 4 months down time.
5) Takeoff on rather cold day (about -20F) in snowstorm. While IMC about 10 minutes after departure, right engine oil temp began to climb rapidly. Snow did not block the oil cooler this time, the cooler froze. (I had 1/3 taped closed for the earlier part of the winter when it was really cold, but had removed the tape as it was now spring...but this was a cold snap and I didn't put the tape back on before flight). Temperature exceeded redline and I feathered the engine and shot an ILS to near minumums in snow with one engine...high stress...ticked off at myself for removing the tape and at the engines for being so fickle.
6) After cylinder failure noted in #4 above, engine was rebuilt with an oil breather tube that was not slotted inside nacelle. Again flying in ice at high altitude, breather tube aperture froze over below engine nacelle, 2 hours into flight at FL240 oil dipstick popped out and vented my engine oil slowly all over the nacelle. Diverted while watching temp rise and pressure decrease. Feathered engine about 30 miles from landing. Low stress (VFR, daytime) no engine damage, just had to replace breather tube and do lots of cleanup. Later on, on same trip, the shower of sparks ignition unit failed and grounded the plane (replaced on site) then the Autopilot servo failed on the way home at which point my wife (who was along for many of these failures) indicated she wanted me to find a new ride.

So...I now fly a plane with engines that eat snow and ice for breakfast (with auto ignition)and have very few moving parts that just go round and round. And yes...I still fly a plane with more than one engine as my experience dictates it's not a bad idea to do so.

Thomas,
Thanks, that is a great write-up. Hopefully it will help all pilots and maintenance providers be careful out there. When I saw the comment about flying with you but not in an Aerostar, I had to think, not much of this is Aerostar specific.
By that I mean:
1. and 2. were caused by installing poorly designed brand X overhauled parts.
4. This was an engine failure or was about to be had you not feathered it in time, and is pretty rare but could happen on any piston engine airplane.
5. I have had the oil congeal in the cooler coming out of a warm hangar and into 20 below weather. I think any piston engine could have this issue.
6. The oil breather failure was another maintenance provider failure that could happen to any airplane.
Item # 3. could certainly be considered an Aerostar specific icing issue. I have had the oil coolers congeal as stated above but by reducing power and waiting 5 minutes, they stayed under red line and the coolers cleared themselves. Since then if it is below zero I always tape the bottom third of the coolers as a precautionary measure. Having had some experience with coolers, having blocked them off and measured effectiveness, I can tell you they still radiate a lot of heat, so if oil is still flowing through the cooler and it is completely iced over, they will still cool the oil better than if the cooler was congealed and by throttling back you should be able to keep temps under the red line.
You handled all of those issues very well and I will fly with you any time in an Aerostar or an MU2. Regarding icing, even the mighty MU2 can have issues in icing as reported on this ATC transcript so even turbine operators have to be careful to avoid ice as much as possible:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wbm8xzLVgQ4


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