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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 26 Jul 2021, 06:56 
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Joined: 02/09/18
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Location: Brownsville TN
Aircraft: Aerostar 601P/700
I believe Bruce's AI is indicating MPH


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 26 Jul 2021, 10:22 
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Username Protected wrote:
“ For long range cruise, I would run about 125 KIAS at 24-28K , at roughly 13.5GPH per engine. ”


I am going to assume this is in the Flight Levels.

:dancing:

As a point of reference:

My heavy draggy 601P does 10-15 knots IAS faster on the same fuel burn.


Forrest


Forrest,

I almost always took off near MTOW with the gross weight increase. :)
From what I recall, though, at the same speed and same altitude, the lower CR on the engine should mean that the 700 burns between 1/2 gallon to 1 gallon more per hour. Not a large penalty to carry a lot more range, and have the option to cruise around 260 KTAS when you want to get there quick.

Tim


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 26 Jul 2021, 11:18 
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Company: Naples Jet Center
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Username Protected wrote:
180KIAS @ FL200 at 24” x 2,200!!!!!

:bow:


That pic quality didn’t come through very good but it’s more like 155 KIAS which would supposedly be 215 KTAS. I have verified it will do 228/9 true on a few more gallons per hour. Yes, it reads MPH on the outside of the gauge.

I’ll tell you what slows it down 25 knots quickly - 1/4” of ice!

But the bright side is as a local fellow owner said - at least you can overwork the boots, lose the pneumatic pumps and then your primary attitude indicator while you’re at it. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 26 Jul 2021, 17:16 
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Joined: 05/26/13
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Aircraft: Aerostar, SR22,RV8,
601P data point...

Long props, no winglets, boots, lots of antennas.
Attachment:
IMG_5141.jpeg


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2021, 06:45 
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Aircraft: Aerostar
At FL250 the throttles are against the stops and the 1650 TIT redline has me limited to 12.8-13.00 gph/side.

FL230 I can run 13.5-14.0 gph so I’m a little faster.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2021, 12:32 
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It's buried somewhere in this thread, but Josh post this some time ago. It's a 700 pulled WAY back.

17500'/30.27" altimeter setting/15.3 degrees OAT
20920' DA
136kias
189ktas

2075rpm
25"MP
11.5gph per side/23gph total
TIT's 1600 degrees or less

[youtube]https://youtu.be/bsT2mhfwi4A[/youtube]

You can keep an Aerostar airborne a LONG time at 23gph...I may try this sometime just to see if my engines like it.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2021, 23:56 
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Username Protected wrote:


What was your true airspeed and power settings and FFs on those long flights?

“Today did the same thing coming home. 4:30 enroute and indicates 50 gal remaining though I calculate 35.“

Always a good idea to go with the most pessimistic fuel indication.

When you next top off you will know what you had.

….

Here is a piece of (my) Aerostar wisdom gained at some cost and inconvenience:

The little rubber index lines that go to the injectors are often the source of ‘clogged’ injectors.
They start to break down and throw tiny pieces of rubber that get stuck inside an injector and cause rough running in flight.

Worse, when you pull the injectors to clean them, you risk more rubber pieces coming loose. With an engine monitor, at least, you can know which injector is acting up. …

Forrest


As a follow up, plane took 126 gallons total after the 4:30 flight. So I had about 40 gallons remaining approximately based on useable fuel. However, I always lift a wing to give it the best chance of filling and to get an extra gallon or 2 in the center. Might that equate to the original 175 gallon capacity? I don’t know and not counting on it. Center took 21.7 so 20 actual vs 30 indicated, lh 48.1 vs 12 indicated and Rh 56 gallons vs 10 indicated. Regardless, based on 126 consumed and say 26 gallons and 30 min flight time including taxi and climb, that’s 4 hours cruise and descent at 25 gph.

It’s an amazing efficient and fun airplane!

Yes, I agree on the index lines and replaced all of them along with the plugs etc. Now looking for other hoses in the system that may be aged. I haven’t looked at the system but I suspect there are some hoses in the wing root or between wing tanks and sumps that are hiding …


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2021, 02:15 
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Joined: 12/18/12
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Username Protected wrote:

It’s an amazing efficient ( and fun ) airplane!



Over here, with AvGas @ $9/gal ( when you can even get it ), efficiency matters, beaucoup !

_________________
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P35
Aerostar 600A


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2021, 02:24 
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Username Protected wrote:
It's buried somewhere in this thread, but Josh post this some time ago. It's a 700 pulled WAY back.

17500'/30.27" altimeter setting/15.3 degrees OAT
20920' DA
136kias
189ktas

2075rpm
25"MP
11.5gph per side/23gph total
TIT's 1600 degrees or less

[youtube]https://youtu.be/bsT2mhfwi4A[/youtube]



Actually, I'm not so sure that speed gives the best MPG : The A* wing is most efficient flying with a very shallow incidence, much less than most others.
My experience is the performance really takes a hit once IAS tips under 140Kts.
If you look closely in the very beginning of the video you can see that the AI is showing a solid 5° nose up attitude - this is not the sweet spot for the A* wing.

So unless your goal is to spend a long time in the air, (think massive tailwind ) then me thinks a tad more power will yield a better MPG figure.

_________________
A&P/IA
P35
Aerostar 600A


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2021, 08:05 
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Username Protected wrote:
Actually, I'm not so sure that speed gives the best MPG : The A* wing is most efficient flying with a very shallow incidence, much less than most others.
My experience is the performance really takes a hit once IAS tips under 140Kts.
If you look closely in the very beginning of the video you can see that the AI is showing a solid 5° nose up attitude - this is not the sweet spot for the A* wing.

So unless your goal is to spend a long time in the air, (think massive tailwind ) then me thinks a tad more power will yield a better MPG figure.
I think you're correct. I was trying to remember what I was doing there, and why. It might have been a "pure science" curiosity, or I might have been trying to maximize loiter time per gallon for the San Francisco Bay Tour, since I was living in that area at the time. None of this detracts from the fact that there are many options for running these engines to achieve different goals.

Just yesterday I canceled a trip to KTRK (see crash talk for more on the airport closure) where I was going to fly at 13k, which gave me the best speed vs headwinds. Having lots of choices and flexibility is a great thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2021, 09:50 
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Location: Owosso, MI (KRNP)
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Username Protected wrote:
Yes, I agree on the index lines and replaced all of them along with the plugs etc. Now looking for other hoses in the system that may be aged. I haven’t looked at the system but I suspect there are some hoses in the wing root or between wing tanks and sumps that are hiding …


One of the things I thought was excessive about the Aerostar was the number of rubber hoses in the airplane. Being a highly hydraulic airplane, there are hoses everywhere. One 8' one in particular in the right wing root to the firewall from the hydraulic pump should have been an aluminum line, but it's not and it's a bugger to change. Yes, there are also rubber hoses in the wing roots, some are short which I assume are instrument lines...

I remember wondering how difficult it would be to keep track of all of them in a 135 environment...

Attachment:
2014-10-16 11.40.06.jpg

Attachment:
IMG_0845.JPG


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2021, 12:03 
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Aircraft: Aerostar
Another data point from this AM:

12,000’ so I was able to run 14.4gph/side for 167 indicated, 205 true.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2021, 15:59 
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Company: Naples Jet Center
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Aircraft: EMB500 AC95 AEST
Username Protected wrote:
Yes, I agree on the index lines and replaced all of them along with the plugs etc. Now looking for other hoses in the system that may be aged. I haven’t looked at the system but I suspect there are some hoses in the wing root or between wing tanks and sumps that are hiding …


One of the things I thought was excessive about the Aerostar was the number of rubber hoses in the airplane. Being a highly hydraulic airplane, there are hoses everywhere. One 8' one in particular in the right wing root to the firewall from the hydraulic pump should have been an aluminum line, but it's not and it's a bugger to change. Yes, there are also rubber hoses in the wing roots, some are short which I assume are instrument lines...

I remember wondering how difficult it would be to keep track of all of them in a 135 environment...

Attachment:
2014-10-16 11.40.06.jpg

Attachment:
IMG_0845.JPG


Oh man! This should be fun!

I would like to start with the fuel lines. But maybe you just do them all “while you’re in there?” There cannot be a good flex hose from 1976. Not one.

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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 29 Jul 2021, 08:09 
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Aircraft: Aerostar
On flight back:

13.5 gph / side


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 30 Jul 2021, 11:51 
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Posts: 611
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Aircraft: Aerostar
Always wanted to do this:

https://youtu.be/a31D2wzRvWQ

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courchevel_Altiport


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