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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2023, 08:37 
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Joined: 11/25/19
Posts: 175
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Aircraft: Aerostar 601P, AS350
Might just be a coincidence, my aerostar really has become more valuable to me than what I can sell it for.

I did look at a Jetprop a few weeks ago, they have a MMO of 171KIAS I believe….

Well… here’s my 601P at 240 28” 2250rpm 19GPH.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2023, 12:30 
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Joined: 12/17/13
Posts: 6322
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Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
Username Protected wrote:
Might just be a coincidence, my aerostar really has become more valuable to me than what I can sell it for.

I did look at a Jetprop a few weeks ago, they have a MMO of 171KIAS I believe….

Well… here’s my 601P at 240 28” 2250rpm 19GPH.


They are hard to beat. And you have one of the absolute nicest ones out there. :thumbup:

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Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2023, 15:46 
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Joined: 02/05/15
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Location: KSLC
Aircraft: Divorced: AC690A-10
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Looks like Josh Holtzmans, Trey O'Daniel and John Herlihy's (JGG's old bird) from this thread are all for sale at the same time. Wonder what they're moving to?


Was JGG's bird repaired?


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2023, 17:08 
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Joined: 08/09/11
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Company: Naples Jet Center
Location: KAPF KPIA
Aircraft: EMB500 AC95 AEST
Username Protected wrote:
Might just be a coincidence, my aerostar really has become more valuable to me than what I can sell it for.

I did look at a Jetprop a few weeks ago, they have a MMO of 171KIAS I believe….

Well… here’s my 601P at 240 28” 2250rpm 19GPH.


Very nice. I’m going to have to start burning some more fuel to try to keep up!


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2023, 21:58 
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Joined: 08/23/15
Posts: 275
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Location: South Jersey KVAY
Aircraft: F33A IO550B CE-472
Holy cow 253ktas in a piston?? Didn't know these things were that quick. I'm guessing that's 19GPH per side. Is this normal cruise power or is that really pushing it? Can the aerostar been run LOP? What would the burn and tas be?


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2023, 21:59 
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Joined: 08/23/15
Posts: 275
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Location: South Jersey KVAY
Aircraft: F33A IO550B CE-472
Holy cow 253ktas in a piston?? Didn't know these things were that quick. I'm guessing that's 19GPH per side. Is this normal cruise power or is that really pushing it? Can the aerostar been run LOP? What would the burn and tas be?


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2023, 22:52 
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Joined: 11/25/19
Posts: 175
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Aircraft: Aerostar 601P, AS350
That was pushing it for sure, 28/2250 is probably 78% power with intercoolers. 19gph per side yes.

Yea you can run it lean of peak and get better MPG but the fuel is honestly cheap and they do just fine rich of peak.

FYI I think the 700 does like 260kts at 25,000’… they burn more gas but yea they haul a$$ for a piston.


Last edited on 01 Jun 2023, 22:55, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2023, 22:55 
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Joined: 12/17/13
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Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
Spirit of Kai Tak, a 700P, averaged 273kts in the London to Sydney race about 20 years ago. It even beat the King Air.

The 702P can nose up on 280kts when everything is right. They'll burn 55-60gal/hr doing so, but you can do it.

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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2023, 23:14 
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Joined: 11/06/10
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Company: Looking
Location: Outside Boston, or some hotel somewhere
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Username Protected wrote:
Holy cow 253ktas in a piston?? Didn't know these things were that quick. I'm guessing that's 19GPH per side. Is this normal cruise power or is that really pushing it? Can the aerostar been run LOP? What would the burn and tas be?


235 KTAS is a good block speed number for the 700 or 702 that I had. In the upper 20s; I would routinely go faster.
The fastest Aerostars are the 700 and the 702 (difference is mostly a digital autopilot). However, some 602P and 601P can run LOP faster than the 700 and 702 can. To run LOP in the 700 and 702 you have to pull power back to 45-50% that some of the other models can run a few knots faster. This is due to TIT limits for the turbos, if you push the power up to much with LOP, you can burn up your turbos.

If you look for my name in this thread, you will see some of the performance numbers I had. I sold mine almost a decade ago, and still miss it. Just not the gas bill :D
I still recall the 42-43 GPH per engine on takeoff....

Tim


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2023, 09:02 
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Joined: 11/25/11
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Location: KGNF, Grenada, MS
Aircraft: Baron, 180,195,J-3
Yes, that is my 601P listed on TAP. I sold it five years ago. Now, it gets weird. The add shows me as the owner with my phone number and email. :scratch:

The airplane lost an engine over the high desert and was landed on a remote strip. I am told, without damage. The engine was replaced on site and the airplane flown out. That is all I know.

Without being maudlin, when I sold the Aerostar, I was still unsure of my emotional status after the loss of Grant. Healing had come slowly and maintaining concentration was a challenge. The Aerostar is a very heavy work load airplane, and I felt I needed simplicity.
The last thing my children needed was to lose Karen and me in an airplane crash because I was not an adequate pilot.

About two years ago, I seemed to be much more stable and started looking for another twin. Still, I wanted something relatively simple: the Baron seemed to fit the mission.

Today, I am better still and spent several days in the Sitcom sim to prove that to my own satisfaction. My level of performance impressed them and almost impressed me.

If I could go back, I would still own N449JG and hang two new engines on it. The performance of some airplanes doesn't meet the promise but the Aerostar does.

I will leave you with this caution with my own actions, described above, as validation. The Aerostar is a high performance, high work load airplane. If you are not willing to commit yourself to being "adequate" with the bird, LEAVE IT ALONE.

Jg

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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2023, 10:23 
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I had a different mental epiphany than JG.
I was living next to the airport (as in my property was at the end of the runway), and I had a meeting in Knoxville at the airport hotel. A 15 minute flight over a mountain range in the Aerostar. Due to how the roads go, it was a 2 hour drive; so the night before the meeting I go to preflight the plane and check my fuel level. I did the math, full power take off, climb, due to workload, fly ROP the majority of the flight... 20 gallons at $6/gallon each way was my estimate.
I then calculated for the car, 3 gallons at $4/gallon.

The fact I was doing this after 300+ hours and two years, I knew I would eventually make a stupid mistake being concerned about the cash burn. So I had the plane listed with a broker in a week.

The Aerostar is an absolutely awesome plane, but one that deserves respect.

Tim


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 03 Jun 2023, 09:57 
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Joined: 01/08/17
Posts: 357
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Aircraft: Aerostars, F33A
Username Protected wrote:
Holy cow 253ktas in a piston?? Didn't know these things were that quick. I'm guessing that's 19GPH per side. Is this normal cruise power or is that really pushing it? Can the aerostar been run LOP? What would the burn and tas be?


235 KTAS is a good block speed number for the 700 or 702 that I had. In the upper 20s; I would routinely go faster.
The fastest Aerostars are the 700 and the 702 (difference is mostly a digital autopilot). However, some 602P and 601P can run LOP faster than the 700 and 702 can. To run LOP in the 700 and 702 you have to pull power back to 45-50% that some of the other models can run a few knots faster. This is due to TIT limits for the turbos, if you push the power up to much with LOP, you can burn up your turbos.

If you look for my name in this thread, you will see some of the performance numbers I had. I sold mine almost a decade ago, and still miss it. Just not the gas bill :D
I still recall the 42-43 GPH per engine on takeoff....

Tim


The 602P is the same engine internally as the Superstar. Slightly different turbo going from the 602P to the Superstar. Superstar 700 has 5 inches more MP for takeoff.

Lean of peak is all the same game if it is intercooled, as are all Superstar 680/700’s. You can’t run much power and keep temps within bounds.

601P is much different with high compression ratio engine with regard to LOP.

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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 03 Jun 2023, 10:20 
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Aircraft: Aerostars, F33A
Trey might have one that is bent just right to be fast, but those cruise numbers and fuel flows would make me suspect of airspeed indicator error.

I did have one Superstar without boots that seemed very fast. Seemed to do 238 ktas at FL250 at 55% power easily.

The fastest booted Superstar I have had took 19.3 gph per side to do 232 ktas at FL250 at comfortable temps with a long term mentality, rather than the “selfie in front of the TAS indicator” type of situation.

The 601P is certainly more fuel efficient but that is a pretty big leap. LOP most 601P’s are at about 215-217 KTAS at 14.5 a side. Much higher fuel flow makes temps uncomfortable for an engine you want to last for the long run.

The race plane that Aerostar built “kai tak” was built for the task from my understanding. I don’t know that they worried much about making TBO as a primary concern. But most of the wear and tear would be top end and turbos.

I am sure Jim Christy has a 99.9% accuracy opinion to whether those numbers are possible, as they have played the game so much in optimizing these numbers. Unfortunately, he usually does not get involved in these types of things without a good reason.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 03 Jun 2023, 22:57 
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Joined: 11/25/19
Posts: 175
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Aircraft: Aerostar 601P, AS350
Duncan Aviation has done my pitot static twice now, it actually has 3 independent airspeed indicators. The stock one reads a touch higher than the garmins that generate the TAS.

I think the speed is from winglets and Lycon cylinders


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 03 Jun 2023, 23:47 
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Joined: 01/24/10
Posts: 6730
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Location: Concord , CA (KCCR)
Aircraft: 1967 Baron B55
All three could wrong if coming from the same source. Only way to really know is to fly legs on all the cardinal headings. Use GPS ground speed and average the GS on all three legs:


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