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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 05 Apr 2018, 19:13 
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Joined: 08/18/11
Posts: 320
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Company: American Aviation, Inc.
Location: Hayden Lake, ID
Aircraft: C90,340,PA31T,PC-12
Username Protected wrote:
Jim, the vertical stab on the aerostar looks a lot like the one on a merlin. You know any history on how or because of whom they are so alike?

Erwin,
Sorry I don't know the history of the tail design.
Jim


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 05 Apr 2018, 20:13 
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Joined: 02/01/09
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Company: boyes bros. inc.
Location: Mexico,Missouri
Aircraft: baron b55
Is it true that all of the moveable tail surfaces are interchangeable?


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 05 Apr 2018, 20:15 
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Joined: 12/17/13
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Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
Username Protected wrote:
Is it true that all of the moveable tail surfaces are interchangeable?


It is true.

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Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 05 Apr 2018, 20:52 
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Joined: 12/06/11
Posts: 21
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Location: Bogota, Colombia
Aircraft: Aerostar 601P
Username Protected wrote:
Fantastic engine/prop sound.

Is it just me, or was that a really long takeoff roll?

high, hot, loaded?


Mark, yes, as Jim said, both takeoffs were from SKGY, 8400msl, I think around 25ºc. the long time between full power and brake release in the cockpit video was because we were doing the first fly with new pumps; we had full fuel, 166 gallons, and three souls. so Yes, the roll was long, and climb rate anemic...

We're really happy with the airplane, learning as we go, and working on the upgrades with Jim's and AAC help.

best,

Miguel


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 05 Apr 2018, 23:29 
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Joined: 02/09/09
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Location: Owosso, MI (KRNP)
Aircraft: 1969 Bonanza V35A
Username Protected wrote:
Is it true that all of the moveable tail surfaces are interchangeable?


And the non-moveable ones too..


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 06 Apr 2018, 00:22 
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Joined: 01/02/08
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Company: Rusnak Auto Group
Location: Newport Coast, CA
Aircraft: Baron B55 N7123N
Username Protected wrote:
Is it true that all of the moveable tail surfaces are interchangeable?

Aerostar factoid. The first Aerostar had Lycoming IO-320s installed for powerplants. The tail feathers commonality was a cost/production savings measure. As I recall, the base price was to be $39,950.00 but the production versions all had IO-540's. I don't remember what the base price was with that engine. Probably around $59,950 I would think.

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Last edited on 06 Apr 2018, 08:48, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 06 Apr 2018, 04:03 
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Joined: 11/25/11
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Location: KGNF, Grenada, MS
Aircraft: Baron, 180,195,J-3
The 601P is a different airplane with intercoolers. I think of them more as a necessity, not an option. My 601P has intercoolers and is a joy to operate with simply NO TEMPERATURE issues, climb out or cruise.

The Aerostar is not a short runway airplane, but then, neither is the Duke or 58P. I compared takeoff and landing numbers between the 58P and the Aerostar: not much difference with the 58P being a little better.

John Grady

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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 18 Apr 2018, 09:20 
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Joined: 03/08/14
Posts: 102
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Company: Innovation Two
Aircraft: Piper PA 60
Some people think the 700HP upgrade is a necessity as well. The 601P is a remarkable tradeoff. I always found there was that little window for about 10 seconds after takeoff where the extra power would have felt better - but that's it. Benefits once through that window are substantial. SLIGHT speed increase on the 700's but much higher fuel flows,

I recall flight planning for the 700 & 601P where the 700 really needed a fuel stop and the 600 did not. Yes you could always slow down - but you bought an Aerostar for the speed - right?

Bob


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 18 Apr 2018, 09:31 
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Joined: 12/02/15
Posts: 377
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Location: KBLM KAPF
Aircraft: Aerostar600A
Username Protected wrote:
Some people think the 700HP upgrade is a necessity as well. The 601P is a remarkable tradeoff. I always found there was that little window for about 10 seconds after takeoff where the extra power would have felt better - but that's it. Benefits once through that window are substantial.

Bob



Winglets seem to cure that hesitation during the gear - up transition


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 18 Apr 2018, 09:38 
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Joined: 12/06/11
Posts: 21
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Location: Bogota, Colombia
Aircraft: Aerostar 601P
For us is about high altitude performance and safety margin.
Also, range is not the main concern within Colombia , from Bogotá, we’re 2 hours from anywhere in the country.
If flying abroad, an emigration stop will be necessary and that would be done at a sea level field, with a fuel refill!!


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostarsit
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2018, 00:48 
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Joined: 06/16/09
Posts: 78
Post Likes: +41
Location: Wichita
Aircraft: C90B, C90A, 940, A*
Not exactly sure why I'm typing this manifesto; maybe just to chronicle an interesting journey of an Aerostar owner. It's long, you'll either find it interesting and totally get it, or the opposite. It's all about the love, hate, love, hate, love relationship with this airplane. Wherever I happen to be on the cycle, just ask me tomorrow, it could be different.

I bought this exact airframe in about 2000. I was flying a B56tc, which I loved, but my wife hated wearing O2. I found the aircraft through Mr. Bridges in Utah, it had an interesting history - flown about 750 hours until the owner lost his medical, then sat for about 10 years without moving. Mr. Bridges resurrected the ac for the guy that made the hangar barn find, did a great job of bringing it to flying condition and he ended up with a nice ac, fresh paint, updated (for the time) Garmin avionics. I had him add known ice and 5.5 pressurization and purchased the ac from the finder.

I flew the ac quite a bit over the next 6 years and came to appreciate the flying qualities and capability of the aircraft. When it was running. In the Midwest, there was not an Aerostar expert nearby. The down time of the airframe without proper preservation resulted in a string of issues that I tried to bandaid. It was a Machen 700 conversion, with the S1A5MMs. I lost the left engine on climb out one day due to a hole in a piston, and about a year later the right one due to a loose turbo line. Both engine losses, incidentally, were nonevents from a management and flying perspective, but certainly confidence shaking on the reliability of the engines and aircraft. Along with other nagging issues - belts, alternator, fuel flow erratic, stuff you don't want to see at night or in IMC or anytime you're flying with your family on board, I began to plan trips looking for nearby Aerostar shops, and finally avoided using the aircraft out of concern of reliability. After about 700h flying time, I let it go in about 2006, got a Baron 58 which was far less sexy or fun but infinitely more reliable (which I still have).

Fast forward to November 2015. I flew a round trip to Las Vegas, and was worn out from the bouncing and weather stress. I had flown the same route a number of times effortlessly in the Aerostar and the pain of chasing the squawks had faded (somewhat). I had been following my old ac on FlightAware, it was in Tennessee, and had not flown for about 3y. I called the FBO at the field, who contacted the owner, who promptly called me back. His first words were "I can't believe the broker found a buyer so fast" - he had just decided to sell the aircraft as he had lost his medical and thought I was calling as a result of the broker he had contacted that day to discuss selling the aircraft. He was half right, wrong about the broker part. Serendipity.

Negotiating and agreement followed. The owner had great love of the ac and had given it great care, upgrading the avionics to a 750/650, Insight G4, fresh U2As. However, his health was failing, and in 10 years - the ac had flown less than 100h since I sold it. The engines had 8 hours on them since OH done 2 years prior and upgraded to U2As. The owner had done much of the maintenance himself, and had a minimal annual done each year which had the logbook appearance of a brief sign off. After a perfunctory prebuy by a reputable Aerostar shop, I got back into 12J for the first time in a decade and flew her home.

This time, the purchase and expectation was eyes wide open, particularly with the knowledge of the ill effects of sitting idle. The difference this time - the desirable engines were on the ac, they were not even broken in, and most importantly I now had a 135 shop with all the resources to work on the ac including a 30y IA champion who would serve as the crew chief for this ac.

And thank goodness. This was a well cared for, upgraded aircraft, with most the mods, fresh U2As and 1480 TTAF. We immediately started going through this ac that had been advertised as pristine and signed off by a reputable shop, and committed to making it a highly dispatch reliable aircraft. Here's our findings and the work list so far:

lh turbo repaired
lh engine fuel pump low flow and replaced
turbo outlet oil fittings replaced
lh fuel servo replaced with correct part
lh oil cooler hose incorrect and replaced
GAMI injectors both engines
ignition harness rh engine heat wearing through and replaced
rh engine oil scavange pump persistent leak and replaced
both auxillary fuel boost pumps low and replaced
air conditioner compressor leaking and overhauled
motivflo valve - engines
all wheels with incorrect parts or warping, replaced
steering actuator replaced
inner gear door actuators-reseal
hydraulic hoses replace
both flap actuators- resealed
hydraulic regulator reseal
rh fuel gate valve reseal
emergency exit door seal
lh horizontal deice boot replace
lh prop deice boot replace

At this point, we hooked up the huffer and tested pressurization. Oops. The 40yo sealant, along with that many years of dirt and dust at the outflow valve, and the workmanship of late 70s Los Angeles Smith plant were all about to be exposed.

Attachment:
IMG_7147.JPG


The pressurization check was impressive in the number of leaks; around the windows and multiple rivet sites, as well as the fuselage where the excess wrap around aluminum had been tacked down with rivets and had probably held at some point but not now. We looked at the design of the 700 around the windows utilizing screws instead of rivets and decided to incorporate it; it eliminates the fulcrum effect at the last inch of the window before the rivets. The interior skin/rib lines and rivet lines were all sealed as well; I'm not sure why that is not a practice at assembly but am guessing it is a weight consideration. All the sealant you see on the following pics we placed; it comes as bare panels.

Add to that an overhauled Dukes controller and refurbed outflow valve and she should be pretty airtight which means less work for the turbos. By the way the outflow valves are getting more difficult to come by.

I'm not sure why the photos are sideways; if you click on them they open with a 90 degree right turn and are correct. Some kind of aerobatic thing

Attachment:
IMG_7129.JPG

Attachment:
IMG_7137.JPG

Attachment:
IMG_7135.JPG

Attachment:
IMG_7141.JPG

Attachment:
IMG_7136.JPG

You could slide a small popsicle stick in the gap that was there after the failing sealant was taken out. This is after trim and re-rivet. You can see where, due to no seal inside, there has been leaking around the rivets and the non-Imron paint has been blown off. These will all be sanded, re-sealed from the inside and repainted
Attachment:
IMG_7140.JPG

Tim and Mark hard at work. About 70 years of experience there
Attachment:
IMG_7144.JPG

The finished product, ready for paint. This is the front aspect of the front passenger window

So the question now is whether to paint the treated areas or the whole thing. Hence the love/hate thing.

But, she is getting better. I will post photos as we proceed and of the finished product.

All credit to AAC for their support of this airframe and particularly the encyclopedic John, who is a constant source of knowledge and encouragement and on a first name basis with our shop. He feels like family.

Anyone else crazy enough to buy an aircraft for the 2nd time?
And this is the second time I've repurchased an aircraft. But that is another story -


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2018, 05:01 
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Joined: 01/05/11
Posts: 314
Post Likes: +226
Aircraft: 1969 Aerostar 600,
Yes, the key to owning an Aerostar is recognizing first, you are buying an aircraft that is 40 to (in my case) 50 years old. I don't care how good it looks or how little time are on the engines and or airframe, things are going to have to be re-built or replaced. What I am finding out, replacement is the better choice. Second, you have to have a shop that knows Aerostar's maintain the aircraft. If you don't they may cause more problems than you already have. There are plenty Aerostar shops around, you just have to know where to go. The Aerostar community http://www.aerostar-owners.com/ is very active and knowledgable.

The good thing is AAC (Aerostar Aircraft Corporation) http://www.aerostaraircraft.com/ owns the type certificate for the aircraft. Support for the Aerostar could not be better. Yes, I know John well and so does my wallet. I've gone through one complete refurbishment and am in the process of going through another. They are magnificent aircraft in every respect and will reward you in every respect. You just have to get to know them and understand them. Once you do, look out.

By the way Marty, you will not be happy until you completely repaint your Aerostar.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2018, 17:38 
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Joined: 12/02/15
Posts: 377
Post Likes: +164
Location: KBLM KAPF
Aircraft: Aerostar600A
If you buy an aircraft that hasn’t been flown for 10 years you will spend another 10 years of catchup maintaince to get it up to snuff


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2018, 21:26 
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Joined: 06/16/09
Posts: 78
Post Likes: +41
Location: Wichita
Aircraft: C90B, C90A, 940, A*
Walter, gonna have to call you the good news bear.

I hope we can cut back on that. The aircraft has essentially been disassembled


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 27 Apr 2018, 05:59 
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Joined: 12/02/15
Posts: 377
Post Likes: +164
Location: KBLM KAPF
Aircraft: Aerostar600A
Marty.... while you are at it install new prop, throttle, and mixture control cables....nothing worse to have one go bust in fliight


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