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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 12 Jun 2022, 21:14 
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Joined: 08/09/11
Posts: 1726
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Company: Naples Jet Center
Location: KAPF KPIA
Aircraft: EMB500 AC95 AEST
Working on 300 hours and it just does everything the intercooled book says plus some knots. It does this in exchange for an open checkbook of course :D

Today on 135 gallons: 908nm in 4:18 @ FL220. Outstanding.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 23 Aug 2022, 09:57 
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Question on performance numbers since one of the new boxes calculates emergency glide distance - what is the glide ratio of the Aerostar? "The Aerostar 600" written by Berl Brechner in the May 1976 AOPA Pilot states, "Aerostar's maker claims a 13:1 glide ratio." I can't find it in the POH or any of the AOA training material.

Also, the FAA's rule of thumb for estimating "best glide airspeed" is half-way between Vy and Vx so is using Vxse a good approximation (113 KIAS in the 600)?

One trip to Orlando the instructor got bored with me an gave me a double engine failure IMC but that's the last time I gave any thought to glide ratios and glide speeds. Thank you Ted Smith and Mr. Lycoming.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 23 Aug 2022, 18:26 
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Joined: 10/11/11
Posts: 70
Post Likes: +35
Location: Corsicana, TX
Aircraft: Aerostar 601P
Aerostar Aircraft told me 14:1.

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Joel Champlin, ATP


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 23 Aug 2022, 22:17 
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Joined: 10/18/11
Posts: 1026
Post Likes: +584
Aircraft: Seabee Aerostar 700
according to one of the aerostar owners that is a test pilot best glide distance is about 150 knots with the props feathered or at 0 thrust

I went up at tried it (at 0 thrust) and the distance traveled to descent 1000 ft was about the same from 150 knots to 165 or so.

with both running the best climb performance is about 160 .


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 13 Sep 2022, 18:05 
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Joined: 11/08/13
Posts: 1914
Post Likes: +1167
Location: KCRQ
Aircraft: Breeezy, 182,601P
So just completed the annual of N6ZR (601P) at The flight shop.
This is the first annual I've had where I basically had zero squawks or expensive items.
(Biggest squawk this time was broken spring in Co-pilot seat back latch)

I've maintained this plane with a blank check, its got two Factory remans
(300hrs and 85 hrs)
When I changed the engines, the engine+annual+everything was
$140K (included 4 new turbos)
and
$120K (included engine driven A/C conversion)

So a no squawk Aerostar annual after everything has been straightened out was
$8357

$6952 was labor, $521 was tax and $884 parts and supplies...

I flew it 85 Hours last year.

I had a tire/tube , a boost pump, and an instrument repair during the year.
(I have my A+P, I did those myself.)

Just thought this would be useful information....


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 14 Sep 2022, 06:43 
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Joined: 01/23/18
Posts: 611
Post Likes: +887
Aircraft: Aerostar
Plane came back from Annual in May.

Lots of work done to include two prop overhauls.

Aero Sonic Fuel flow gauge lost its memory (fuel used) on flight home.

Aero Sonic is no longer supporting their FF gauges.

OK, it’s time to upgrade to a Shadin.

The intermittent Problem with voltage regulator moved when regulators were swapped.

Order replacement voltage regulator.

Plane is due for oil change, etc.

Meanwhile, EA100 dies.

Order exchange EA100.

(Long lead time)

Return to do oil change and have Shadin and new voltage regulator installed.

Discuss long term intermittent engine driven fuel pump issue.

Decide, I got sold a bum fuel pump in 2020, (problem dates from that pump).

Once installed, Shadin digital fuel flow is wacky (it’s normal and matches the FF indication on the JPI, but on the Shadin, the right fuel flow on the Shadin goes down at flows above 20 gph).

JPI FF is normal.

Call Shadin, fellow there say: That happens, bad transducer.

Additional troubleshooting

Problem follows transducer -guy at Shadin knows his stuff.

TIT probe fails-2000+ degree intermittent indication

Put in replacement transducer and replacement EA100.

Will do fuel pump and TIT probe when pump comes in.

I’m past 5K and I haven’t seen bill for EA100 and transducer install yet.

I assume between the EA100, the transducer install and the engine driven fuel pump and the TIT probe I’ll be well past $10K in post Annual repairs.

And, due to my work schedule, I’ve only flown about 25 hours (one trip to Vero Beach and one to Asheville, NC, & one to Greenville, NC plus local proficiency flights).

On the bright side, when this is all done, I’ll have a working AP, and a modern (supported) fuel flow indicator/totalizer. Next time I’m at the avionics shop I’ll have them link the Shadin to the GPS and it will be able to do all sorts of cool features (just like my JPI 760).

The points of this post:

Low utilization doesn’t save as much as one might think, (if you continue to fix stuff as it fails).

These planes are complex machines, there is a lot of stuff that is going to need repair/replacement/upgrading.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 14 Sep 2022, 09:32 
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Joined: 07/13/09
Posts: 5043
Post Likes: +6500
Location: Nirvana
Aircraft: OPAs
Forrest, thanks for your post. I always enjoy the "reality check" of reading about your Aerostar.


Still think they are one of the most interesting twins (piston) out there. I think I'll always love the King Air 300 the most of all the planes I've flown (for transportation).



Hope the Lear is treating you well.


stan

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"Most of my money I spent on airplanes. The rest I just wasted....."
---the EFI, POF-----


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 14 Sep 2022, 10:14 
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Joined: 01/23/18
Posts: 611
Post Likes: +887
Aircraft: Aerostar
It is! (THEY ARE!)
:thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2022, 02:45 
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Joined: 12/17/13
Posts: 6322
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Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
Username Protected wrote:
So just completed the annual of N6ZR (601P) at The flight shop.
This is the first annual I've had where I basically had zero squawks or expensive items.
(Biggest squawk this time was broken spring in Co-pilot seat back latch)

I've maintained this plane with a blank check, its got two Factory remans
(300hrs and 85 hrs)
When I changed the engines, the engine+annual+everything was
$140K (included 4 new turbos)
and
$120K (included engine driven A/C conversion)

So a no squawk Aerostar annual after everything has been straightened out was
$8357

$6952 was labor, $521 was tax and $884 parts and supplies...

I flew it 85 Hours last year.

I had a tire/tube , a boost pump, and an instrument repair during the year.
(I have my A+P, I did those myself.)

Just thought this would be useful information....


Paul, like you, the most expensive annual I ever had on the Aerostar was $13K. Cheapest was $7K. But I did overhaul two engines so the annual "buried" in that was probably substantially more.

_________________
Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 17 Sep 2022, 23:07 
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Joined: 06/17/14
Posts: 4893
Post Likes: +1862
Location: KJYO
Aircraft: C-182, GA-7
The AeroStar is an amazing twin and one of the most fun that I have ever flown! IT took a hot second to get used to taxiing and preparing for takeoff.

Thanks for sharing your overall experience and your costs!


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 18 Sep 2022, 05:34 
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Joined: 07/19/16
Posts: 63
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Company: m29
Location: Arroyo Grande, California
Aircraft: 64 m20e, A* 700
Kudos to Ted, as his design has not been responded to now for 55 years and running. Amazing. She simply does things no other plane designed by mankind can do. Like it or lump it, she's number one, and will be for some time. I never knew Ted, but his employees visit me often and sing his praises and relish their memories building 1000+ of his planes here at santa maria. Bless you and thank you Mr. Smith. We need more men like you today...men of vision, men of integrity, men of commitment.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 18 Sep 2022, 09:54 
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Joined: 08/09/11
Posts: 1726
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Company: Naples Jet Center
Location: KAPF KPIA
Aircraft: EMB500 AC95 AEST
Username Protected wrote:
It is! (THEY ARE!)
:thumbup:


Learjet? I must have missed it :cheers:


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 18 Sep 2022, 13:25 
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Joined: 01/08/17
Posts: 357
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Aircraft: Aerostars, F33A
Username Protected wrote:
.... building 1000+ of his planes here at santa maria. Bless you and thank you Mr. Smith.


Ted Smith was unbelievably talented at what he did. I feel fortunate to have been able to play with these incredible and unsurpassed planes that he designed.

My understanding is that 1028 Aerostars were built, two were tested to failure. Early planes were built off the airport in Van Nuys. I do not have a definite count as to how many were built in Van Nuys, but I believe it to be 129.

Most of the Aerostars were built at Santa Maria, as I calculate ... somewhere in the ball park of 806 aircraft.

The last of the planes were produced at Vero Beach. All the 1982 model year 602P's and subsequent were built there. I believe the count to be 93 Aerostar 602P and 700P's built at Vero Beach.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2022, 14:26 
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Joined: 01/08/17
Posts: 357
Post Likes: +254
Aircraft: Aerostars, F33A
For any other Aerostar geeks out there like me:

After Ted Smith got control of the company in late 1972, * the first eight Aerostars after going back into production were put together from fuselage sections already assembled by Butler. Ryan in San Diego had already manufactured 300 ship-sets of wings early in the production run in the late 1960's. These first eight planes upon restart of the production (possibly more) were assembled at Van Nuys before the Santa Maria move. * 1973 production was 18 aircraft per Ron Smith, Ted's son. * Boyd Lydick has stated that airframes up to serial number 147-150 or so were produced at Van Nuys.

Of those early airframes, four never flew. Since serial number 150 was the first 1974 model year plane, I would bet that was the first off the Santa Maria line.

That would put the Van Nuys production at 145 planes that flew, two that were used for testing and two fuselages that never were mated with wings.

Roger Oeland from Van Nuys has always been a fantastic source for information on the early Aerostar years. I may have to call him to see if he recalls how many Butler planes were finished at Van Nuys before the move.

Looks to me like the Santa Maria production was right about 786 airframes.

* marked with asterisk is data that comes from Dave Duntz fantastic book on Ted Smith and his planes, Stars and Commanders. I highly recommend this book for Aerostar/Commander/Ted Smith fans.

As obvious to anyone reading this I have a real sickness for tracking Aerostars!


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2022, 08:59 
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Joined: 01/28/13
Posts: 6037
Post Likes: +3998
Location: Indiana
Aircraft: C195, D17S, M20TN
Kent,

Aviationism is a deadly, lifelong circle to land in a heap, worn out with no friends willing to listen to you the last 5 years other than those living in your asylum.

Chuck
PS:
You’re understood and appreciated here in the asylum.

_________________
Chuck
KEVV


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