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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 08 Apr 2021, 17:19 
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Joined: 10/18/11
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Aircraft: Seabee Aerostar 700
this is the accident that resulted from trapped water that could not be easily drained from an Aerostar

here is the kathryns report about undrainable water in the Aerostar tanks

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2018/07/t ... ident.html

They drained the all tanks totally by removing the sump drains.
in this case If they would have completed the task by removing the inboard inspection covers forward and aft of the spar, they would have found additional water. This plane lived in Baton Rouge, LA and set out in the weather for more than year during an engine rebuild.

They filled the plane with fuel and sumped the drains and additional water came out but they didn't get it all.

This situation is a rare one but any fuel tank which is not full can have condensation form in the wing tanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 08 Apr 2021, 17:51 
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Company: Naples Jet Center
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Aircraft: EMB500 AC95 AEST
Username Protected wrote:
this is the accident that resulted from trapped water that could not be easily drained from an Aerostar ....


They filled the plane with fuel and sumped the drains and additional water came out but they didn't get it all.

....


I don’t know about that Bill, while the links don’t work anymore, I recall reading about it and it looked like it had about 47 other reasons it should not have been flying including wing fuel sumps that could not be open due to corrosion. What could go wrong? :shrug:


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2021, 08:44 
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Joined: 12/18/12
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Location: Europe
Aircraft: Aerostar 600A
Bill : Read the Accident Report :

"The fuel sump drains in the left and right fuel tanks were corroded and unable to move."

How the hell can you say that the pilot had purged the tanks when the FAA investigator found the above ?

I am not aware of any such situation with the Aerostar which you describe where any significant amount cannot be removed from regular tank sumping.

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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2021, 06:55 
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Joined: 01/23/18
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Aircraft: Aerostar
Sun and Fun KLAL Wednesday 4/14

I’m going.
Just for the day.
Parking at Sheltair.
Plan to arrive at 8:00AM
Depart after the air show.
Previously I have wandered around to see what I can see and then I go back to the plane, put out blankets and chair to watch the air show.
Why blankets AND chairs?
Sometimes, I choose to get horizontal and check my eyelids for holes.
Last time I was there the Aztec parked next to me was the plane I took my ATP check ride in.
Small world.

Anyway

If you are in the neighborhood, please look me up.

Forrest


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 25 Apr 2021, 20:57 
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Joined: 01/02/08
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Company: Rusnak Auto Group
Location: Newport Coast, CA
Aircraft: Baron B55 N7123N
Uneventful single engine landing today at Greeley, CO. My cousin, Kent Larson, will likely chime in with details.


Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.

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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 25 Apr 2021, 23:46 
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Location: KJYO
Aircraft: C-182, GA-7
GLAD you all are OK! Those TSIO540 engines make a LOT of power and that big rudder fortunately has quite a bit of authority. My instructor did a simulated OEI on takeoff at altitude and it was amazing how much climb we had with just the 2 of us at blue line! With 700 HP total we climbed like a homesick angel on the normal takeoffs. ...glad that you all made it down safely.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2021, 06:53 
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Joined: 01/05/11
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Aircraft: 1969 Aerostar 600,
You really don’t need a lot of rudder authority to single engine fly an Aerostar. At least I never did. Actually, the first time I flew an Aerostar single engine feathered I was surprised at how little rudder was actually required.


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2021, 08:41 
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Location: KGNF, Grenada, MS
Aircraft: Baron, 180,195,J-3
But Sven, if he had been in a single with the good engine, he would never have had the engine fail. :bugeye:

:stir:

:D

Jg

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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2021, 09:43 
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Kent was right seat with the new owner in the left. Engines were fresh out of major overhaul with around 10 hours on them. Lost MP at FL200 then oil pressure started falling. Once the OP continued south below the green arc, Kent made the call to shut it down. Nothing obviously amiss when the engine was visually inspected so it’s a developing story.

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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2021, 09:56 
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That is how an engine failure (in a twin) is supposed to go.

Minimal drama in the air.

Kudos to Kent (AND the new owner)

:cheers:


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2021, 16:06 
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Aircraft: Aerostars, F33A
Ok - here is the post-mortem as we know it today.

Aerostar 602P/700 climbing through FL220 on the way to FL230 enroute to Cleveland area, right MP went from 35" to near nothing. That was the part that gets your heart rate up. When training someone, you never know what they are doing when you are not looking. The student, in this case, was quick to the power levers, which made it look from my side like he may have pulled on something. That was not the case.

I figured an induction clamp had let loose or something along those lines, so we reversed course back toward home base and started down.

As we got to the north end of the Denver airspace it became apparent that the oil pressure was not going to remain where we would like to see it, so at maybe 7500 feet we shut the right down. The shop that had done the engines (turbos were low time and reinstalled) was right there in front of us with a long runway and not nearly the traffic that we have at my home base. Completely uneventful arrival just the way it should be!

Made a few radio calls to make sure everyone in the pattern was aware of the nature of our arrival! Even was able to get it all the way across the field to where we wanted to go on the remaining engine.

The previous day I had explained to the new Aerostar pilot/owner that if you lose a turbo you are probably going to crank out all your oil - so we were watching for this. There was no significant oil behind the engine - which is not what I expected. Just a slightly oil darkened tailpipe. No induction hoses seemed to have any significant issue.

We are not sure whether the failure was due to lack of lubrication or some corrosive issue.

The turbo is completely shrapnelled and not core material.

Easy textbook arrival but certainly not the most challenging set of circumstances. Would have been very stressful if it happened right after rotation!


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2021, 21:45 
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Company: Controlled Fusion Inc.
Location: Coto de Caza, CA
Aircraft: Aerostar 601p N2DX
Kent

Glad everything went ok.
I had an induction hose come loose @ FL210 a couple years ago. Quite amazing when a turbocharged engine normalizes in the flight levels!


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2021, 22:05 
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Aircraft: Aerostars, F33A
Username Protected wrote:
Kent

Glad everything went ok.
I had an induction hose come loose @ FL210 a couple years ago. Quite amazing when a turbocharged engine normalizes in the flight levels!


Thanks.

Yes it is amazing how startling it is. In the FL200's it is about the same in both the high and low compression engines. Down low or close to the ground, it is even worse with the low compression 602P/700 engines.

Imagine having that happen just after breaking ground! In a 700, you are going from 42 inches MP to 23" at my home base.

It catches your attention in a 601P even at this altitude, as you would go from 29.5" MP to 23" in a hurry! At near sea level in the 601P you don't lose too much power until you climb, which is an advantage!


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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2021, 22:08 
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Company: Premier Bone and Joint
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They will quit at low altitude as well. The 700’s are dumping so much fuel into the engine during the takeoff and initial climb (42gph +) that if you loose a turbo, the engine will “rich out” and stop making power.
I had that happen in a 700 when the waste gate arm broke and the gate opened right at rotation. Another time a different one broke and it happened the same way but during takeoff roll (much easier to control, but still interrupted our trip and required air-lining home).
These were not new AAC wastegates, but had been overhauled by a (then) reputable company. Said company is no longer doing wastegates.
But realize that if you fully loose a turbo for whatever reason at any altitude, a supercharged engine will rich out and and effectively fail. You can pull back the mixture and get some power back, but that takes some time to figure out in the heat of the moment.

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 Post subject: Re: Aerostars
PostPosted: 27 Apr 2021, 00:18 
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Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
Good points, Thomas. :thumbup:

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