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 Post subject: Cost per hour determinations?
PostPosted: 11 Sep 2015, 08:56 
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Joined: 12/29/14
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Location: Brunswick, Ga
Aircraft: PA32RT-300T
How does one go about determining what your cost per hour is? It would seem there are so many variables, pinning down a true number is rather subjective. Sure, there are fixed costs, but for instance, how would you attempt to "value" the remaining time on an OH if you were selling? Or how would you determine a cost per hour for a leaseback?

It would seem rather easy prima fascia, but the number can swing 20% without much trying. Is the a calculator out there that breaks it down easier than a SWAG?


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 Post subject: Re: Cost per hour determinations?
PostPosted: 11 Sep 2015, 09:02 
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Joined: 04/04/14
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Location: Boonton Twp, NJ
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I like how Jason Crandall does it.

The check you write on January 1st (Fixed costs, calendar driven maintenance)

Then the cost per hour (fuel, engine reserve, tires, hours driven maintenance

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 Post subject: Re: Cost per hour determinations?
PostPosted: 11 Sep 2015, 09:42 
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Joined: 11/08/12
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Location: Jackson, MS (KHKS)
Aircraft: 1961 Cessna 172
Theres no way to get a per hour number prospectively accurate within 20% on a single airframe. The question isnt what it will cost - its unknowable - the question is how you handle surprises.


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 Post subject: Re: Cost per hour determinations?
PostPosted: 11 Sep 2015, 09:42 
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Joined: 01/29/08
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Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
Username Protected wrote:
I like how Jason Crandall does it.

The check you write on January 1st (Fixed costs, calendar driven maintenance)

Then the cost per hour (fuel, engine reserve, tires, hours driven maintenance

Yup.

A $1000 an hour airplane costs $250K on January 1 of the year.

To fly it 300 hours that year costs another $50K.

Insert your own numbers accordingly.

Makes you wanna go fly doesn't it?


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 Post subject: Re: Cost per hour determinations?
PostPosted: 11 Sep 2015, 09:55 
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Aircraft: C182P, Merlin IIIC
The more "cost per hour" comes up the more irrelevant I think it is.

Determine the mx schedule and associated costs, program costs (engines/avionics) then add your personal insurance/hanger/training then fuel/ramp/subscriptions. Work the total out for a typical year of flying and decide if you can live with it.


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 Post subject: Re: Cost per hour determinations?
PostPosted: 11 Sep 2015, 10:10 
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Location: Boonton Twp, NJ
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Username Protected wrote:
I like how Jason Crandall does it.

The check you write on January 1st (Fixed costs, calendar driven maintenance)

Then the cost per hour (fuel, engine reserve, tires, hours driven maintenance

Yup.

A $1000 an hour airplane costs $250K on January 1 of the year.

To fly it 300 hours that year costs another $50K.

Insert your own numbers accordingly.

Makes you wanna go fly doesn't it?



It's a simple way to put fixed and variable costs in a way easily explainable to the "accountant". But simple is good.

Hangar, insurance, recurrent, etc cost the same for 0 or 1000 hours.

Best way to reduce cost per hour is to fly more and reduce the impact of the fixed costs.
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 Post subject: Re: Cost per hour determinations?
PostPosted: 11 Sep 2015, 10:15 
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Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
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Granted, some years that January 1 check is not $250K. But if you average all costs over the course of the life limits of the calender overhaul parts it will come out to that. In the case of my plane it's about 6 years.


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 Post subject: Re: Cost per hour determinations?
PostPosted: 17 Sep 2015, 13:02 
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Joined: 03/05/14
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Company: WA Aircraft
Location: Fort Worth, TX (T67)
Aircraft: 1969 Bonanza E33C
I like to break it down into teeny tiny numbers.

For Crandall's example. 1000/hr and 250,000/year at 300 hrs/year

9 seats in the PC12 and 2 pilot seats. 11 seats at 270 KTAS

A little math and it only cost $0.62 per seat per mile!

Pilots have this ability to rationalize just about any expense :crazy: :rofl:


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 Post subject: Re: Cost per hour determinations?
PostPosted: 17 Sep 2015, 13:10 
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Joined: 01/16/11
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Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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Very easy in my case.........

my hourly fee is $500
I get 1 hr of additional productivity each hour that I fly.
It costs me $400 an hour to fly the baron
It also is a great stress reliever allowing me to avoid the daily visits to the
- massage therapist $100 an hour
- psychotherapist $175 per hour

So when I break it down it actually looks like this

400 - 500 - 100 - 175 = minus 375 an hour

So if I go flying, and i know that it's hard to fathom, but I actually make $375 an hour. It does not cost me a dime. It's the reason I need a faster, bigger, more expensive airplane. I feel I'm cheating the system currently.

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 Post subject: Re: Cost per hour determinations?
PostPosted: 17 Sep 2015, 13:21 
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Joined: 01/08/14
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Aircraft: Duke
only way to know true cost per hour in ownership is the calculation you do the day you sell the plane.


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 Post subject: Re: Cost per hour determinations?
PostPosted: 17 Sep 2015, 13:27 
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Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Aerostar Superstar 2
I only count the fuel. So my turbine is about $200-250/hr! :peace:

The rest is just the yearly club membership fee.

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 Post subject: Re: Cost per hour determinations?
PostPosted: 17 Sep 2015, 14:00 
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Joined: 05/22/09
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Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Aircraft: 1977 A36
Due to hour driven components, it might be best in a piston to calculate the per 500 hours flown cost + fixed costs (insurance, hangar & basic annual inspection). In 500 hours you have
Mags
Alternator
Vacuum pump
Engine depreciation
Maybe tires
Maybe battery
Maybe plugs (if massive so)....
Yep, it is impossible to do this accurately. There are fuel bladders, starter adapters, avionics repairs...what a money pit. No way to justify it. The Indefensible.

Did I tell you I flew to Amarillo and back yesterday. It was a blast!

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 Post subject: Re: Cost per hour determinations?
PostPosted: 17 Sep 2015, 22:12 
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Joined: 11/25/11
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Location: KGNF, Grenada, MS
Aircraft: Baron, 180,195,J-3
Well, I hate to speak here simply because there are so many variables. No matter what you say, someone can point out the deficiencies and be somewhat correct.

But, you want a "rule of thumb".

OK. I have tracked the cost of operating my airplanes over the years with the benefit of a very good in house book keeper and very good records. So, coming from MY EXPERIENCE, here goes.

The fixed cost you should know. The acquisition cost you should know. The fuel cost are "how many hours per annum" x price of fuel.

It's (obviously) the variable cost that throws up the ???????? of "how much".

Take the cost of engine and prop overhaul, divide them by TBO, then double that figure times your annual flight hours. Add to that the base cost of an annual. That's going to be pretty near you hourly maintenance cost.

That will not include avionics/paint/interior upgrades, which are costs that you choose to have.

That number parallels the cost I experienced with my Mooney Bravo for the seven years of ownership and seems to be a very good measure of what I am experiencing with the Aerostar. Now, if your personal experience is different, fine. This simply works for me.

Jgreen

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 Post subject: Re: Cost per hour determinations?
PostPosted: 20 Sep 2015, 01:26 
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Joined: 08/03/08
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Location: 2W5
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Accounting cost on a private plane by the hour is like allocating the cost of a 29ft center console to the pounds of fish caught.


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 Post subject: Re: Cost per hour determinations?
PostPosted: 20 Sep 2015, 20:33 
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Location: KGNF, Grenada, MS
Aircraft: Baron, 180,195,J-3
Username Protected wrote:
Accounting cost on a private plane by the hour is like allocating the cost of a 29ft center console to the pounds of fish caught.


Florian,

You are ABSOLUTELY correct; but.

A fellow has got to make a reasonable total dollar per year estimate, negative cash flow if you will, of an airplane before he makes the plunge.

I've seen people who didn't and to their dismay, learned on the back end the X dollars per year was simply outside their budget.

My meaning?. Well, sometimes you just have to ask "how long is a piece of string."

All that being said, in most aircraft ownership situations, I believe that I could give a pretty good estimate to a potential buyer/owner on a specific airplane if I knew all his ownership/operating parameters.

Jgreen

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