I have been waiting to say anything, but a few of you already know. I have placed a deposit on a Cessna 340 R/STOL with Ram VI engines. I wanted to get some training before fully committing to buy it so I researched and found Kevin Wair up in Skaget, Washington. Keven has a beautiful 340 R/STOL with Ram VII's and agreed to train me in it.
My wife and I arrived there last Wednesday and first thing Thursday we started with some classroom. Kevin explained the flap system that makes up the R/STOL kit and how it works, then went into detail on the fuel system and its intricacies. After that it was go time.
As some of you know, I have a 2,300' grass strip and I went up there for the sole purpose of finding out if this plane will safely operate on my strip. Kevin had assured me it would, but wanted me to feel comfortable doing it.
Kevin slid into the left seat to start and lined up for our first takeoff. Full flaps, wheel back in his gut. To my amazement the plane was off the ground in about 700' at 65knots! He kept it about one foot off the runway until above the 71knot VMC then pulled up the first notch of flaps and started to climb as the gear came up. I was already grinning.
We went over to Arlington, which has usable grass runways beside the asphalt where Kevin proceeded to land in less than 900' between turnoffs, then showed me another 700' takeoff on grass.
By this time I cant wipe the grin off my face and its my turn to fly. My first take off was less than 1,200' and then we climbed up to altitude to do some slow flight. Thats where the plane really shines. At 65 knots, in landing configuration, the plane is completely controllable with no bad habits. Pulling the left mixture, I was able to hold heading and settle into a 400'/min decent with no issues. Approach stalls were benign. A hard buffet followed by the nose dropping and then immediately recovering. If I held the yolk back, it would just continue to porpoise down, loosing about 50' each time.
After 10 or so takeoff and landings, we went out to Orca island and Roche Harbor to try my hand at some real short field work. I cannot begin to describe how beautiful that country is!
After two days and 8.5 hours of flying, I am totally convinced this is the perfect plane for my mission. 220 knots at 22,000' in pressurized comfort and sub 1,500' runway capabilities. What more could I ask for?

Nice

Looks awesome. How's the panel?

the plane in the pic is the one I was training in. It has a 480/430 stack.
The plane I am buying has an old silver crown stack. Everything is coming out and we are installing a g500/ gtn 750, with a new stec 55x autopilot.

Wow, that's awesome. What an incredibly versatile machine!

Sounds like a great find. Can't believe the performance you'll have fun!!

"Grass strips are for real pilots". In a twin that's wow factor.

Congrats

Have you mentally worked through what happens if an engine quits at that moment you are under Vmc and 1 ft high?

It isn't pretty.

Most pilots who do that will say "I'll chop both and land straight ahead". Sounds good in theory. I've never met one who has done it for real, unannounced engine failure, below Vmc, in ground effect, at full power.

The problem is that if you give yourself ANY reasonable reaction time, say 3 seconds, you are no longer over the runway after an engine fails in this configuration. You have been pulled sideways by the yaw and are now 100 ft off the runway center line and yawed into the dead engine. That's the definition of being under Vmc, you can't stop the yaw.

What is the point of being 1 ft high until you reach Vmc? You still needed runway under you, or something very similar to runway, to fly 1 ft high. By lifting off so early, you added lots of drag that without would allow you to reach Vmc sooner. Your flight profile is actually lower than if you stayed on the ground longer due to the extra drag penalty, which could come into play if you are trying to climb over obstacles (typically, the major issue with short runway usage, not 1 ft high grass).

The instructor was showing you the minimum ground roll you can achieve, but it doesn't cost you much more runway and it leads to a better climb out angle if you stay on the ground a bit longer, and you don't end up below Vmc. I would not suggest you make it routine to do the takeoff using the technique you were shown.

Find a 340 sim somewhere and try it. You might be amazed at how far sideways you get in 3 seconds for an engine failure below Vmc right at liftoff. If you can avoid that exposure by staying on the ground a bit longer, do so.

For those who argue you can recognize engine failure and chop the throttles faster than 3 seconds, I'll note the FAA requires a MINIMUM of 2 seconds engine failure recognition time for part 25 certification, and this is for professionally flown two crew aircraft. You can try to convince me you will be faster than 3 seconds, but for an unannounced engine failure, I doubt it.

Mike C.

The only way to handle that situation is to be spring loaded that if the airplane yaws off the centerline whether on the runway or flying one foot above the runway below VMC you must chop the throttles and abort the takeoff. You can't let the runway disappear under you.

I agree, the safer technique is to keep the plane on the runway until VMC.

Taking off on a short grass runway you don't have accelerate/stop capability. There will be a window where you can't fly and you can't stop on the runway.

Vmc is also affected slightly by ground effect.

Have you mentally worked through what happens if an engine quits at that moment you are under Vmc and 1 ft high?

It isn't pretty.

Most pilots who do that will say "I'll chop both and land straight ahead". Sounds good in theory. I've never met one who has done it for real, unannounced engine failure, below Vmc, in ground effect, at full power.

The problem is that if you give yourself ANY reasonable reaction time, say 3 seconds, you are no longer over the runway after an engine fails in this configuration. You have been pulled sideways by the yaw and are now 100 ft off the runway center line and yawed into the dead engine. That's the definition of being under Vmc, you can't stop the yaw.

What is the point of being 1 ft high until you reach Vmc? You still needed runway under you, or something very similar to runway, to fly 1 ft high. By lifting off so early, you added lots of drag that without would allow you to reach Vmc sooner. Your flight profile is actually lower than if you stayed on the ground longer due to the extra drag penalty, which could come into play if you are trying to climb over obstacles (typically, the major issue with short runway usage, not 1 ft high grass).

The instructor was showing you the minimum ground roll you can achieve, but it doesn't cost you much more runway and it leads to a better climb out angle if you stay on the ground a bit longer, and you don't end up below Vmc. I would not suggest you make it routine to do the takeoff using the technique you were shown.

Find a 340 sim somewhere and try it. You might be amazed at how far sideways you get in 3 seconds for an engine failure below Vmc right at liftoff. If you can avoid that exposure by staying on the ground a bit longer, do so.

For those who argue you can recognize engine failure and chop the throttles faster than 3 seconds, I'll note the FAA requires a MINIMUM of 2 seconds engine failure recognition time for part 25 certification, and this is for professionally flown two crew aircraft. You can try to convince me you will be faster than 3 seconds, but for an unannounced engine failure, I doubt it.

Mike C.

Congratulations, Doug! What a wonderful plane.

+1

Congrats Doug!

That's were I did my training for my 414.
Glad it went well

Congrats Doug.

You know where the risk is, and are mitigating it.

Enjoy your personal rocket.

Best,

You say you have never met a pilot that has had this happen. Then you say with certainty that I will be 100' off centerline within 3 seconds. How do you know? I would be interested to know if it, in fact, has ever happened. I hear lots of wives tales. I have been told by a lot of old pilots that I am a fool for even trying this, yet not a single one of them has ever heard of nor experienced an engine failure at that exact moment. The time period we are speaking about is on the magnitude of 3-4 seconds.
I submit that the odds of that particular scenario are so remote that it is statistically almost insignificant. If you know otherwise I would love to hear about it.
We have to manage our risks. Some of them are just not worthy of worry.

I was one of the early-to-know guys, and all I can say is


Awesome ride Doug