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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 18 Oct 2020, 07:50 
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Congrats to all the BT guys now flying the really cool Avanti. While I’m not in that club I definitely think Adam F deserves a round of applause for always bringing up the qualities of this unique aircraft back when no one else did. I have been thinking about this aircraft and the altitudes/speed regime in flys in and realized I have never heard of an inflight breakup of an Avanti. Is this the case? A tough bird. Hope y’all enjoy it.

Your challenge, Erwin, is the P180 doesn't have long enough legs, correct?


My “next plane” would have a range of 2300 nm at 460 knots and above FL400. That would allow me to get to where I want to go in two legs and before customs closes. With the current virus situation international travel as Ive done in the past is up in the air.

I think in this current environment avoiding tech stops will be worth a lot more than it was before, and to me it’s always been worth a lot.

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 18 Oct 2020, 08:55 
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Does that imply your next plane will not be single pilot?

A Williams SII citation comes close to that spec but I still don’t think hits it.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 18 Oct 2020, 12:05 
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Erwin, you need a SJ30! :thumbup:

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 18 Oct 2020, 23:13 
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Username Protected wrote:

The P180 POH I have indicates 3,700' ground run and 7,000' accelerate go distance at Santa Fe at that temp, and 3,900' ground roll and 7,400' accelerate go at Telluride at that temp. Not bad. I'm not sure the long runway criticism is warranted. Maybe it's more difficult to achieve book numbers in the P180?


Carl, I'm speculating here but I think if you're drawing a conclusion from Jim's B200 -42 numbers compared to P180, the P180 will start to look better because it's not temp limited like -42s may be at those airports/temps. A -61/-52 B200 would probably fare better by comparison.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 18 Oct 2020, 23:30 
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Username Protected wrote:

The P180 POH I have indicates 3,700' ground run and 7,000' accelerate go distance at Santa Fe at that temp, and 3,900' ground roll and 7,400' accelerate go at Telluride at that temp. Not bad. I'm not sure the long runway criticism is warranted. Maybe it's more difficult to achieve book numbers in the P180?


Carl, I'm speculating here but I think if you're drawing a conclusion from Jim's B200 -42 numbers compared to P180, the P180 will start to look better because it's not temp limited like -42s may be at those airports/temps. A -61/-52 B200 would probably fare better by comparison.

I think you nailed it. The B200-42 will look a lot better than the P180 at sea level. As you get hotter & higher, they get a lot closer (until you get to cruise altitude, when the B200 can't even see the P180 any more.)
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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2020, 00:46 
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Ok, at sea level on a standard day the P180 has a ground roll of 2,050’ and accelerate go distance of 3,500’. What are the B200-42 numbers?


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2020, 11:58 
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Denver Dallas. 370 kts at fl370 on 600lbs hour. Definitely a sweet spot.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 25 Oct 2020, 02:56 
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The props require overhaul every 72 months. Is there a limit to how many times the blades can be overhauled? For example, are they trashed on the third overhaul?


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 25 Oct 2020, 13:54 
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Part 91 I very much doubt they need overhauling. Inspect and service, only. This is Hartzell's age old trick to try to force you into overhauls and grinding away material on the props.

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 25 Oct 2020, 14:10 
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Username Protected wrote:
Ok, at sea level on a standard day the P180 has a ground roll of 2,050’ and accelerate go distance of 3,500’. What are the B200-42 numbers?


While cleaning out the garage, I found an old King Air 200 POH (PT6A-41) from 1978. At flaps 40% (most favorable) the ground roll is 1,850’ and the accelerate go distance is 4,750’. Not a B200, but someone here might find the info useful. P180 is still looking to me like the runway hog characterization is inaccurate.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 25 Oct 2020, 14:27 
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FL 350 today. Just cruising at 560lbs hour.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 26 Oct 2020, 16:15 
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Username Protected wrote:
Ok, at sea level on a standard day the P180 has a ground roll of 2,050’ and accelerate go distance of 3,500’. What are the B200-42 numbers?


Sorry I'm late - I've been busy flying the B200. ;)

For the Raisbeck B200 at gross, it's a ground roll of 1,750' and accelerate-go (to 35' AGL) is 3,600'. That's flaps up.

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 26 Oct 2020, 18:02 
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You Avanti guys have to stop posting these pics...making me oh so jealous :D Incredible machines :thumbup:

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 26 Oct 2020, 21:46 
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Location: Oklahoma City - PWA/Calistoga KSTS
Aircraft: UMF3, UBF 2, P180 II
I flew to KPBI yesterday to begin training at Flight Safety. I'd agreed to bring a couple of pilots back to their plane and drop them off at NW Florida Regional on the way down which we did. Unfortunately Sheltair was slammed when we go there and had to wait about an hour for our fuel order. So, we ate lunch in the pilot's break room.

I just picked up my plane from ICJS yesterday morning after they finished the LPV install on the the PL21 so KECP was the first chance to try it out. Like a rock! So, I guess that $76,000 investment was worth it...

Last night my training partner told me one of the pilots we ferried wasn't feeling well and it might mess up his schedule and he might have to bug out. I suggested the pilot get tested. We started ground school this morning and had two guys from Poland in class. One an EASA equivalent of DPE on the Piaggio so class was interesting. At the end of lunch my training partner got a call from the pilot. Positive. Crap.

We told our program manager, got our stuff and got out of there. We spent several hours in a small plane with that guy and in a small break room for an hour. And my training partner hadn't slept well last night and had chills. Deciding we'd rather be sick at home we checked out of the hotel and bugged out.

The weather in OKC was crappy today with sleet, freezing rain, etc. Tomorrow is forecasted to be worse. With 90 knots on the nose and just under 1100 nm we made it back in just under 4 hours and landed with 570 pounds burning just over 2100. The last half hour was interesting as we staying high and came down quickly to max fuel and flew in and out of ice. The plane doesn't seem to even know it's got a quarter inch on it.

The ILS was easy peasy down to 300 feet. Glad we picked the ILS this time instead of the LPV (might have had to go around and low on fuel I didn't want to do that) except I couldn't see out the copilot's side at all as it got covered in ice. No big deal except when I was trying to turn right off the runway. Taxiing by Braille...

Leaving it with the Meta FBO at Wiley Post as they could hangar (and my Best Tug isn't here yet so I can't get it in my hangar) I headed home. I live 25 minutes from the airport and got the call when almost home that I'd left the brakes on...Crap. So, back I go. My training partner was driving home to Tulsa and I didn't beat him home by much.

Tomorrow I get to go get tested and maybe quarantine for a while. At least I have my 300 pound Flight Safety manual to read while I do.

The more I fly the P180 the more I like it!

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2020, 08:03 
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Sorry to hear that, Tony. I hope you’re safe and can resume your training with FlightSafety soon.

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