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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2021, 11:20 
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Joined: 01/12/10
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Location: Dallas, Texas
Aircraft: Piaggio P180, TTx
Username Protected wrote:
They vary a bit I am told. Your leading edges are 10kts. Rest could be weight. I fly around light a lot so my plane seems fast:-). It definitely slows down when I start filling seats.

Your engines are close to tbo too, right?

What’s your empty weight - I am at 7950.



Mine is 8220 but I fly a lot with just one other person so that wouldnt be it. The engines are close to TBO. (3350 hours)

Gotta fly these hours on out to get my new engines. Thank GOD its on ESP Gold!


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2021, 16:55 
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Joined: 12/30/15
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Location: Charlotte
Aircraft: Avanti-Citabria
Moab,Utah back to Charlotte At FL390 today in just under 4 hours. Went higher to burn a bit less fuel. Cleaned off dirty/buggy wing from Texas ranch before departure.

Family said they could have flown a LOT further. Real LAV is priceless and not hard to deal with if LAV service not available at airport like I found at Moab.
What a change from being sufficiently shaken and stirred after 3 hours in twin piston.

I asked for and received the Turbojet crossing restriction coming into Charlotte.
“Cross JALIT at 11,000 and 250 knots”

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 21 Mar 2021, 00:58 
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Joined: 08/03/10
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Company: D&M Leasing Houston
Location: Katy, TX (KTME)
Aircraft: CitationV/C180
Username Protected wrote:
Moab,Utah back to Charlotte At FL390 today in just under 4 hours. Went higher to burn a bit less fuel. Cleaned off dirty/buggy wing from Texas ranch before departure.

Family said they could have flown a LOT further. Real LAV is priceless and not hard to deal with if LAV service not available at airport like I found at Moab.
What a change from being sufficiently shaken and stirred after 3 hours in twin piston.

I asked for and received the Turbojet crossing restriction coming into Charlotte.
“Cross JALIT at 11,000 and 250 knots”


Good to meet you Brad. Enjoy your new bird!


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 21 Mar 2021, 07:04 
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Joined: 09/26/09
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Company: ElitAire
Location: Columbus, OH - KCMH
Aircraft: Piaggio P180
Username Protected wrote:
Moab,Utah back to Charlotte At FL390 today in just under 4 hours. Went higher to burn a bit less fuel. Cleaned off dirty/buggy wing from Texas ranch before departure.

Family said they could have flown a LOT further. Real LAV is priceless and not hard to deal with if LAV service not available at airport like I found at Moab.
What a change from being sufficiently shaken and stirred after 3 hours in twin piston.

I asked for and received the Turbojet crossing restriction coming into Charlotte.
“Cross JALIT at 11,000 and 250 knots”




That’s great Brad. Similar to Phoenix - Columbus which I will do fairly often. How much fuel did you have on arrival? FF predicts around 2000lbs for that flight?


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 21 Mar 2021, 09:35 
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Location: Oklahoma City - PWA/Calistoga KSTS
Aircraft: UMF3, UBF 2, P180 II
Username Protected wrote:
Tony let me know if you make it non stop. Also give me some engine parameters/cruise speed/fuel flows/ TAS numbers too.

Have a great trip!

Mark


Mark,

We made a quick out to the coast and back trip Fri/Sat with the first leg KPWA-KFAT. 1108 NM per Flightaware. We started the engines with 2820 lbs. Got step climbed to 36 where we looked at fuel situation and realized we wouldn't make nonstop. From takeoff to 36 was 23 minutes. After 7 minutes and considering fuel situation climbed up to 38, which took 4 minutes, and stopped there for a bit as the climb rate while heavy suggested we'd be better off to burn some fuel before climbing higher. Ultimately, after 38 minutes at 38 we began the climb to 40 which took 5 minutes.

We averaged just over 50 knots of headwind during the trip with HW as high as 67 over the Rockies. Power setting at FL40 was 61.5% torque with ITT's of 778/776 and fuel flows of 274/274. That gave a TAS of 354-355 at ISA +1-3 degrees.

We were seeing fuel on arrival fluctuating between 450-570 lbs as headwinds changed. I experimented with power settings to adjust fuel on arrival. At one point I set power at 53% with fuel flows of 243/243 which gave TAS of 333 at +5 ISA. My last photo shows 54.2% iwht 244/247 fuel, 771/772 ITT, TAS of 341 at ISA-2.

I left the props at 2,000 for the whole trip.

We were concerned during the whole flight about fuel on arrival and plan B was to check and make a no go decision at NICLE with a landing at Las Vegas if necessary. Plan C was to land at Bishop before crossing the mountains. Weather at destination was consisent 7k ceilings and as we got closer there was moderate rain on approach and center was lining everyone up at NTELL for the approach.

As we progressed winds lessened and we saw 550 on arrival. They started vectoring us which was a concern as one vector dropped us under 400 but ATC helped out. We were expecting either the visual or RNAV and ultimately got the RNAV from NTELL.

One of the issues we had was staying high and when we started getting descent instructions we came down very slowly and later as we had to speed up descent I had the power out quit a bit.

Ultimately landed with 550 lbs. Flight time was 4:09.

The next leg to KWVI a couple of hours later was interesting. The initial climb was to 10k and that's all they ever let us have. The trip is only 119 NM and ultimately took 36 minutes with a full approach. But we were in and out of moderate turbulence (as felt with our high wing loaded airplane), moderate rain and icing. Not a fun leg for my wife. And I was busy getting icing equipment on and off and dealing with a right wing main overheat that happened a couple of times. Going up to FL180, which is what I filed, and was told to expect, would have been better. It wasn't busy in the airspace but it was a quick flight and decided not to press with ATC. Normally NorCal is very helpful but sometimes you get somone who maybe just hasn't flown in weather.

Anyway we flew the RNAV 2 which is the only precision approach to Watsonville. As we got close to the IF NorCal advised someone just going missed on the localizer and was headed for Salinas which has an ILS.

When I bought my plane it didn't have LPV. In my flying to Watsonville in the TBM I'd run into this at least a half dozen times. So, I added LPV for about $75k. I was glad on Friday that I had that capability as we got in right at minimums and didn't have to go missed back up into the bumpy, rainy, icy crap, go somewhere else and take an hour to Uber to Watsonville where the car was.

Coming home yesterday we had blue bird weather, nearly 100 knots of tailwind at FL33 and made the 1159 NM in 2:56. We flew at 89% torque, 779/778 ITT and 350/350 fuel flow. TAS ranged from372 up to 378 as fuel burned off. This was at ISA +1-3. Props were at Flight Idle stops and 1815.

I experimented and pushed ITT's up to 798 with torque at 92.5 and FF 365/364 which gave me TAS of 383 at ISA +1. I only did that for about 5 minutes as the juice wasn't worth the squeeze.

Total trip time of 7:41 with one stop to the west coast is about my average. I think I'll be able to do the whole 1200 NM trip west bound when the winds drop into the thirties. Maybe I'll get to try that next month.

At FL400 the cabin is only about 5.5k in elevation. It's quiet. Not a lot of vibration. But stress takes it's toll to a degree regardless. I was slightly tired after getting to Watsonville, but nothing like I felt flying the TBM for 45 more minutes at a 10k cabin. The flight home at a sub 5k cabin and sub 3 hours is pretty effortless. Overall for a 36 hour out/back flying 2,300 NM in about 8 hours my fatigue level was much, much less than in my last airplane.

Another thought about this flight is cost. An exchange with Matt got me to thinking about all the costs that go into a flight on a per hour basis. The clear conclusion is go as fast as you possibly can as fuel is cheap in comparison. Stopping for fuel may be a slower option than slowing down to stretch fuel. But it is a much cheaper option when you think about the cost of flying time.

P.S. My BEW is 8071.8. I was carrying 695 pounds of people and gear.

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Travel Air B4000, Waco UBF2,UMF3,YMF5, UPF7,YKS 6, Fairchild 24W, Cessna 120
Never enough!


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 21 Mar 2021, 14:42 
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Tony

Just missed you while you were at FAT. Next time, socializing and preferences permitting, lunch on me!


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 21 Mar 2021, 16:27 
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Hi Neema,

We just stopped for fuel and for my wife to look at a table. Pretty quick turn.

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Travel Air B4000, Waco UBF2,UMF3,YMF5, UPF7,YKS 6, Fairchild 24W, Cessna 120
Never enough!


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 30 Mar 2021, 23:19 
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Blasting towards sunset tonite.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 31 Mar 2021, 13:15 
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That's booking.....why the difference in altitudes amongst the various displays?

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 31 Mar 2021, 13:20 
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Joined: 08/24/13
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Location: KSMQ New Jersey
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Username Protected wrote:
That's booking.....why the difference in altitudes amongst the various displays?


SSEC? The MD302 probably has no correction


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 31 Mar 2021, 18:47 
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Username Protected wrote:
That's booking.....why the difference in altitudes amongst the various displays?


The Garmin altimeters are not corrected with RVSM curves, the old guages are and that is what drives the AP. It's my one quibble with the panel. Will eventually be solved with a future STC.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 18 Apr 2021, 12:41 
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Joined: 01/12/10
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Location: Dallas, Texas
Aircraft: Piaggio P180, TTx
Well sadly I am selling my Piaggio Avanti II. No longer in need of this size airplane since I sold my company and am concentrating on a major hotel in Texas for the next couple of years.. Dont need this much airplane but it breaks my heart to sell her :sad:

2007 Avanti II with new gear overhaul, prop overhauls and 3350 time WITH A FULLY PAID UP ESP Gold. LPV and WAAS/Charts already done. New paint. Perfect. Comes with all current inspections through June. Intercontinental Jet maintained. I am the third owner.

PM me for price and more details or email me at dmark22@mac.com

Mark


Last edited on 18 Apr 2021, 15:49, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 18 Apr 2021, 14:41 
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What’s next? GLWS


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 18 Apr 2021, 15:48 
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Joined: 01/12/10
Posts: 396
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Location: Dallas, Texas
Aircraft: Piaggio P180, TTx
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What’s next? GLWS

Probably going to buy a TTX for my current transportation needs (under 400 miles).

Mark


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 18 Apr 2021, 16:07 
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Mama’s gonna be pissed.


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