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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 07 Mar 2021, 18:40 
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Joined: 03/03/11
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I have flown into Aspen multiple times. They seemed happy to take my 300 dollar ramp fee or charge me 8 bucks per gallon for gas.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 07 Mar 2021, 19:45 
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Joined: 06/06/12
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Let me state for the record: I like airplane noise! I’m most partial to a Merlin, a Griffon, and large radials, but the distinctive sound and smell of a MU-2 and an Avanti are also a thrill. I used to fly from Camarillo (CMA) where all of the above could be heard regularly and Avantair had a FBO.

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 07 Mar 2021, 21:10 
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So no improvements for the "older" models. Too bad: from what I can tell it's a great machine: fast and economical. Eco-friendly "green" to operate vs a lot of light jets and other turbo props as I read the discussion here and see the pictures with great speed and low fuel flows.

MU-2 with -10 engines and 5 bladed props: still getting kill due to noise.
King Air B100: with the -10 engines and 5 bladed props: well within the German noise limits, unfortunately only a few still in operation because all the other series use the PT6.

P180 Avanti I/II: seems they will suffer the same faith.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 07 Mar 2021, 21:55 
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Joined: 01/12/10
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Location: Dallas, Texas
Aircraft: Piaggio P180, TTx
I fly into Naples all the time. There is no ban at Naples.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 07 Mar 2021, 22:19 
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Username Protected wrote:
I fly into Naples all the time. There is no ban at Naples.


So you see why I asked what airport bans Avanti.
Like most things aviation, ppl post bs all day long. Then you ask those that actually know and boom, a whole other reality emerges. It seems that of all those listed, possibly smo won’t allow them in. :deadhorse:


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2021, 06:45 
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A P180 recently flew overhead here in Kuwait. It sounded like a C337 Skymaster, just more intense. Very distinctive. To some people here, it might even be reminiscent of a drone (the big, dangerous kind that are magnetically attracted to oil facilities).

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2021, 08:44 
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Username Protected wrote:
To some people here, it might even be reminiscent of a drone (the big, dangerous kind that are magnetically attracted to oil facilities).


It actually could be: http://www.p1hh.piaggioaerospace.it

Piaggio calls it an Unmanned Aerial System.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2021, 16:17 
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Username Protected wrote:
http://www.p1hh.piaggioaerospace.it/
Piaggio P.1HH HammerHead has a slightly lager wingspan and a heavier MCTOW than the Evo.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2021, 08:36 
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Location: Charlotte
Aircraft: Avanti-Citabria
Charlotte to San Antonio tomorrow am.
My experience going west is winds are normally slightly higher than forecast.
ForeFlight showing 74 knots at FL380
FlightPlan showing 85 knots
Departing during CLT slow time so I can climb immediately.
Requesting turbojet arrival into SAT (Houston center says...maybe to probable) so I can stay up longer before descending into San Antonio

Topped off on landing Friday...only got 2760. Will top off over wing tomorrow am and hopefully get a bit more.

What say you....will I make it non stop?
Mentally planning on no and stopping about 100 miles short...BUT, if I can make SAT it will save me a fuel stop on mid week flight to UTAH.

A wee bit excited

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2021, 09:05 
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Location: Oklahoma City - PWA/Calistoga KSTS
Aircraft: UMF3, UBF 2, P180 II
Brad,

I think it was Anthony's suggestion to wait a few minutes after the pressure fuel stops flowing and then to turn on again to get a bit more in the tanks. I've been using that technique and always get more than 2800 lbs.

Your trip using FF recommended routing is 991 NM. FL 360 shows using 2048 lbs with a 56 knot headwind. FL320 gets you there 14 minutes faster with 2,240 lbs. Still plenty of reserve.

If winds are worse than forecast you can always pull the levers back. And it never hurts to have a closer alternate. But you should make it just fine from what I'm seeing.

I'm going from OKC to Fresno, CA on Friday. 1114 NM with winds forecast around 45. I should make it fine but will have an option.

And I'm looking forward to trying out my Oregon Aero foam seat insert on a longer flight. My crew seats have sheep skin covers that just basically sit on top of the seat so putting in the roughly 2 inch thick foam was simple. Tried it on a flight to/from KDAL las week and it was much more comfortable.

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2021, 09:34 
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Joined: 01/12/10
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Location: Dallas, Texas
Aircraft: Piaggio P180, TTx
Tony let me know if you make it non stop. Also give me some engine parameters/cruise speed/fuel flows/ TAS numbers too.

Have a great trip!

Mark


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2021, 09:59 
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Username Protected wrote:
If winds are worse than forecast you can always pull the levers back.


At what point does that not help on the P180? I find that with any headwind over 50 kts in the TBM (maybe lower even), the max range will be at max cruise.

I tried that a few weeks ago going to TX. 90 kts on the nose. Pulling power back resulted in less fuel in the tanks at my fuel stop according to my GTN fuel calc.

I don't know where the crossover point is for headwinds in a TBM (the point where max range is max power). Some people claim it is any headwind, but I don't think that is true for every airframe.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2021, 11:54 
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Username Protected wrote:

At what point does that not help on the P180? I find that with any headwind over 50 kts in the TBM (maybe lower even), the max range will be at max cruise.

I tried that a few weeks ago going to TX. 90 kts on the nose. Pulling power back resulted in less fuel in the tanks at my fuel stop according to my GTN fuel calc.

I don't know where the crossover point is for headwinds in a TBM (the point where max range is max power). Some people claim it is any headwind, but I don't think that is true for every airframe.


According to POH, it really does help the P180. As I recall it, max range comes at around 290kts on the Avanti 1.

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2021, 12:11 
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Username Protected wrote:

At what point does that not help on the P180? I find that with any headwind over 50 kts in the TBM (maybe lower even), the max range will be at max cruise.

I tried that a few weeks ago going to TX. 90 kts on the nose. Pulling power back resulted in less fuel in the tanks at my fuel stop according to my GTN fuel calc.

I don't know where the crossover point is for headwinds in a TBM (the point where max range is max power). Some people claim it is any headwind, but I don't think that is true for every airframe.


According to POH, it really does help the P180. As I recall it, max range comes at around 290kts on the Avanti 1.


But does that take headwinds into account? I have a max range in the POH for the TBM, but with a significant headwind you will burn more fuel to your destination by flying at that speed.

There is some value of headwind where max range speeds no longer help, but hurt. Past that point you burn less by going fast. I don't know that value for the TBM, but I think it is somewhere between 25-80 kts. I'll need to plot it out......

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2021, 12:19 
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Joined: 12/30/15
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Location: Charlotte
Aircraft: Avanti-Citabria
I think Terry is more correct.
Reducing power to get max range out the window with increasing headwinds.
I am showing at FL380 and 85 knots Ave on nose using around 2250lbs in FlightPlan.
This is assuming I can climb quickly out of CLT and not get brought down early into San Antonio. Pretty sure I will see 100knots on nose at some point tomorrow.
VFR at SAT with 3 runways plus a very close alternate but I am way too new in this airplane to push fuel more than a hair.

I received my Oregon Aero cushion a week ago. Ordered 1” and either they sent 2” or the 1” is the interior pad itself without top & bottom cover. On four 2 hour flights last week it is better than the sheepskin which I removed. Will see how much better on longer flights coming up.

Now, returning to CLT from Utah next week....planning NONSTOP...1445NM
Even if tailwind is light and I have to pull back power to EPIC/TBM speedz :)

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