BeechTalk - BT - The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 14 Jan 2020, 13:17

If you want to go 390kts and go 1200nm, then the P180 is not the right choice and yes, it'll burn at least 100gal there. It only has 420gal capacity, so it's a 3hr plane with reserves at it's fastest altitude of FL280. For its size and standup cabin the fuel flow of the Avanti should be compared to a 2-pilot jet in the midsize range more accurately.

Jason, Anthony here just bought one, so as soon he's done with his upgrades, it will be very interesting to hear what his experiences are. He's promised me a ride, so I look forward to that.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 14 Jan 2020, 13:45

You must be this tall, or less, to stand up in our cabin.......

Username Protected · **Posted:** 14 Jan 2020, 21:17

The plane performs to book. As usual, people who have not flown pretend book numbers are not real. Everyone told me an mu2 couldn’t do 1300nm. I did it all the time; often into the wind. The book was right. People who chose to ignore it were wrong.

The reason no one flies max range speeds on a pc12 or a Tbm is bc they are slow at that setting. No one wants to run a turbine at piston speeds.

Lrc in a Piaggio is over 300kts and it will burn 360lbs an hour doing it. 2800lbs of fuel. This is not hard math to determine range.

To Adams point, when the trip is shorter, fly a little lower and run it fast. It has a lot of flexibility.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 14 Jan 2020, 23:12

Username Protected wrote:

A bit different, I found out today a guy I know is gonna be restoring Connie Edwards old P.136 Royal Gull.
[youtube]https://youtu.be/WXe7nrU3kLo[/youtube]

Wow those are cool

Username Protected · **Posted:** 14 Jan 2020, 23:50

Username Protected wrote:

The plane performs to book. As usual, people who have not flown pretend book numbers are not real. Everyone told me an mu2 couldn’t do 1300nm. I did it all the time; often into the wind. The book was right. People who chose to ignore it were wrong.

The reason no one flies max range speeds on a pc12 or a Tbm is bc they are slow at that setting. No one wants to run a turbine at piston speeds.

Lrc in a Piaggio is over 300kts and it will burn 360lbs an hour doing it. 2800lbs of fuel. This is not hard math to determine range.

To Adams point, when the trip is shorter, fly a little lower and run it fast. It has a lot of flexibility.

Im jealous of your P180 so it’s had me shopping.

My comments stemmed from operating cost posts. Not being critical of the P180.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 15 Jan 2020, 08:54

Username Protected wrote:

The plane performs to book. As usual, people who have not flown pretend book numbers are not real. Everyone told me an mu2 couldn’t do 1300nm. I did it all the time; often into the wind. The book was right. People who chose to ignore it were wrong.

The reason no one flies max range speeds on a pc12 or a Tbm is bc they are slow at that setting. No one wants to run a turbine at piston speeds.

Lrc in a Piaggio is over 300kts and it will burn 360lbs an hour doing it. 2800lbs of fuel. This is not hard math to determine range.

To Adams point, when the trip is shorter, fly a little lower and run it fast. It has a lot of flexibility.

Can't wait to read your PIREP

Username Protected · **Posted:** 15 Jan 2020, 09:00

I get it Jason, I was referring to the tbm comment about no one ever flies LRC.

I think the op cost one is definitely an open question. I have talked to everyone about it but won’t know till I run it for a while. Less than a jet and more than a turboprop seems likely. After doing all the training, that makes sense. The systems are jet complex, it just has pt6 engines. Prices are getting to the point though where max depreciation possible might make it a deal vs a jet if your ownership horizon is long enough. Also, it’s not a plane everyone can work on, so you have to figure that out depending on where you are based. Lots of people manage it despite being in the middle of nowhere so it’s possible, but potentially annoying.

I will also say that while the cabin is huge, the ability to load gear in something like a king air or pc12 is better. If you were carrying 10 people, you are going to have someone sitting on the potty and you are going to have to fit all baggage in the baggage compartment.

To me, it’s a solid pilot plus 7 plane. Cabin isn’t long enough to make double club work, although, I am not sure which sp jet does that well anyway. Maybe the ultra or p300? 6 people in the back are really comfortable.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 15 Jan 2020, 13:51

What kind of inaurance prices are you guys seeing for pc12's or P180's with at least 2mm hull?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 15 Jan 2020, 14:34

Username Protected wrote:

Also..... I try to track P180's on FA every day. I can't seem to ever find one flying or even with past flights to see what kind of endurance they're getting. I've looked up every P180 listed on Controller. None have flown in months or have any history of flying. No, they're not blocked.

Out of curiosity, I just checked FA...and there are actually three P180s airborne at this moment. C-GRTG, SYB198 (Symbolair), and N184LW. The last one appears to be based at Conroe and has recently made a few trips out to Los Cabos. One trip diverted into Laredo before continuing to SJD, and another went nonstop in 3:45. It's currently flying CXO-TEB at FL330, 2:58 enroute.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 15 Jan 2020, 21:39

Username Protected wrote:

I get it Jason, I was referring to the tbm comment about no one ever flies LRC.

I think the op cost one is definitely an open question. I have talked to everyone about it but won’t know till I run it for a while. Less than a jet and more than a turboprop seems likely. After doing all the training, that makes sense. The systems are jet complex, it just has pt6 engines. Prices are getting to the point though where max depreciation possible might make it a deal vs a jet if your ownership horizon is long enough. Also, it’s not a plane everyone can work on, so you have to figure that out depending on where you are based. Lots of people manage it despite being in the middle of nowhere so it’s possible, but potentially annoying.

I will also say that while the cabin is huge, the ability to load gear in something like a king air or pc12 is better. If you were carrying 10 people, you are going to have someone sitting on the potty and you are going to have to fit all baggage in the baggage compartment.

To me, it’s a solid pilot plus 7 plane. Cabin isn’t long enough to make double club work, although, I am not sure which sp jet does that well anyway. Maybe the ultra or p300? 6 people in the back are really comfortable.

I flew 8 from Atlanta to Cabo today and thought a lot about how nice the trip would be in a P180.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 15 Jan 2020, 21:40

Username Protected wrote:

Also..... I try to track P180's on FA every day. I can't seem to ever find one flying or even with past flights to see what kind of endurance they're getting. I've looked up every P180 listed on Controller. None have flown in months or have any history of flying. No, they're not blocked.

Out of curiosity, I just checked FA...and there are actually three P180s airborne at this moment. C-GRTG, SYB198 (Symbolair), and N184LW. The last one appears to be based at Conroe and has recently made a few trips out to Los Cabos. One trip diverted into Laredo before continuing to SJD, and another went nonstop in 3:45. It's currently flying CXO-TEB at FL330, 2:58 enroute.