BeechTalk - BT - The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 May 2020, 16:21

Username Protected wrote:

if you could mount -10's or even -12's on it, it would probably be a great performer when it comes to efficiency. But maybe the thermodynamic rating isn't enough for FL410, not sure. The PT6's are flat rated at 850shp on the P180, I wonder what their true SL power is? Probably closer to 1600shp/side.

Skip the -10s or 12s, go straight to the -14, with a thermo rating of 1,759 hp vs the Avanti's PT6s rated 1,630 hp thermo. More efficient and more powerful. However, note the -14 is listed with an operational limit of only 31,000 feet.
http://www.compairaviation.com/tpe331-14.html

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 May 2020, 18:30

Well....a bit of a mid stream change. Pulled out of the sale of the 1991 and I instead have gone under contract with an Avanti 2 with new engines for just a bit more money.

Pro Line 21 is very familiar due to my airline background and I end up with a 2007 model that’s been extremely well cared for .

Flight safety June 1 and pick her up June 20.

Can’t wait!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 May 2020, 19:10

Username Protected wrote:

if you could mount -10's or even -12's on it, it would probably be a great performer when it comes to efficiency. But maybe the thermodynamic rating isn't enough for FL410, not sure. The PT6's are flat rated at 850shp on the P180, I wonder what their true SL power is? Probably closer to 1600shp/side.

Skip the -10s or 12s, go straight to the -14, with a thermo rating of 1,759 hp vs the Avanti's PT6s rated 1,630 hp thermo. More efficient and more powerful. However, note the -14 is listed with an operational limit of only 31,000 feet.
http://www.compairaviation.com/tpe331-14.html

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 May 2020, 20:04

400LS is certified to FL410.

:popcorn:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 May 2020, 14:38

That panel looks great - what does the full Garmin panel upgrade cost for the Avanti I? I’ve heard rumors of other upgrades for the initial Avanti’s (landing gear, something with the PT6, brakes even an aux fuel tank). Kind of curious what it would take to get an Avanti I, get new paint/interior, new avioinics, new whatever else makes sense and go. The Avanti II’s with PL21 seem to be going for the low to high $2 mm range but based on this thread I think you could fix up an Avanti I for a lot less.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 May 2020, 15:49

Username Protected wrote:

That panel looks great - what does the full Garmin panel upgrade cost for the Avanti I? I’ve heard rumors of other upgrades for the initial Avanti’s (landing gear, something with the PT6, brakes even an aux fuel tank). Kind of curious what it would take to get an Avanti I, get new paint/interior, new avioinics, new whatever else makes sense and go. The Avanti II’s with PL21 seem to be going for the low to high $2 mm range but based on this thread I think you could fix up an Avanti I for a lot less.

You're prob looking at $200K for panel upgrade. Aux fuel tank not avail for Avanti I and it's also ridiculously costly for only 60gal extra. Gear overhaul is $250-350K, but not mandatory part 91. On the later Magnaghi gear you can get steel brakes, but the Avanti I has the older gear with carbon brakes (expensive). But all in all, yes, a first generation will be cheaper than II, in most cases. I think just the ADS-B upgrade on the Proline is $130K alone.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 May 2020, 16:31

Username Protected wrote:

Gear overhaul is $250-350K

How often is that overhaul? Please tell me that you meant "upgrade" or you added an extra zero (twice)...

If it is an upgrade, what do you get? Anti-lock auto-reversing magic levitating brakes?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 May 2020, 16:39

Username Protected wrote:

Gear overhaul is $250-350K

How often is that overhaul? Please tell me that you meant "upgrade" or you added an extra zero (twice)...

If it is an upgrade, what do you get? Anti-lock auto-reversing magic levitating brakes?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 May 2020, 17:10

That video was very informative. I like the panel shots where I could pause and take some readings. :thumbup:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 May 2020, 17:51

Username Protected wrote:

Its every 12 years to operate it Part 135. Part 91 its not required. The II I am buying just finished it - 243,400 - glad I didn't have to pay it. All it gives you is the ability to fly the airplane legally 135 for the next 12 years or 6000 landings. No anti skid.

While you don't need it under 91 it hurts valuations when you go to sell it if its overdue.

The steel brake modification is another advantage to the II over the I. Its 65,000 from Parker but changes the brake over haul costs from 40,000 to 8,000 when they are needed (which from what I can tell is every 3 years or so). I am doing it next year once my newly overhauled carbon brakes give out. The carbon brakes are the worst thing about the airplane really. Very poor design and the steel brakes give you a way out of that. The stacks are ALL carbon and if they get overheated (very easy from what I understand) it warps the wheel and the entire assembly has to be redone $$$$.

The steel brakes eliminate that and tend to be less grabby to boot. This isn't first hand info by the way, its gleaned from 4 different operators and the ex DOM at Avantair that I have talked to about the Avanti brake issues.

PL21 ADSB is 85K by the way Adam...

Mark

Good info, Mark. I should add that the new gear, if I'm not mistaken, extends overhaul to 15 years part 135. But I don't think many II's have that new gear.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 May 2020, 18:39

Username Protected wrote:

Its every 12 years to operate it Part 135. Part 91 its not required. The II I am buying just finished it - 243,400 - glad I didn't have to pay it. All it gives you is the ability to fly the airplane legally 135 for the next 12 years or 6000 landings. No anti skid.

While you don't need it under 91 it hurts valuations when you go to sell it if its overdue.

The steel brake modification is another advantage to the II over the I. Its 65,000 from Parker but changes the brake over haul costs from 40,000 to 8,000 when they are needed (which from what I can tell is every 3 years or so). I am doing it next year once my newly overhauled carbon brakes give out. The carbon brakes are the worst thing about the airplane really. Very poor design and the steel brakes give you a way out of that. The stacks are ALL carbon and if they get overheated (very easy from what I understand) it warps the wheel and the entire assembly has to be redone $$$$.

The steel brakes eliminate that and tend to be less grabby to boot. This isn't first hand info by the way, its gleaned from 4 different operators and the ex DOM at Avantair that I have talked to about the Avanti brake issues.

PL21 ADSB is 85K by the way Adam...

Mark

Good info, Mark. I should add that the new gear, if I'm not mistaken, extends overhaul to 15 years part 135. But I don't think many II's have that new gear.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 May 2020, 21:27

I thought there was also an STC to put the EVO style anti-skid brakes on the I and II and maybe even the new steering system as well.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 May 2020, 23:54

That is accurate Matt

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 May 2020, 08:40

Username Protected wrote:

That is accurate Matt

I haven’t seen that. How is the steering system different on the EVO? Any links to more info on this?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 May 2020, 09:31

Username Protected wrote:

I haven’t seen that. How is the steering system different on the EVO? Any links to more info on this?

New Steering System was installed with the new Magnaghi Landing Gear.

From the pilot operational perspective, there are no differences from the previous one.