banner
banner

23 Apr 2024, 02:55 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Greenwich AeroGroup (banner)



Reply to topic  [ 2882 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31 ... 193  Next
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 12 May 2020, 10:27 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 08/03/10
Posts: 1562
Post Likes: +1781
Company: D&M Leasing Houston
Location: Katy, TX (KTME)
Aircraft: CitationV/C180
Username Protected wrote:
Is your airplane in Tulsa, Mark?


Yes, at Intercontinental Jet.


What kind of time frame Mark?

Top

 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 12 May 2020, 10:47 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 09/16/10
Posts: 8891
Post Likes: +1956
Nice article from 1991 so probably more accurate for the early models.

https://books.google.ca/books?id=mhbToF ... es&f=false

_________________
If you think nobody cares about you. Try not paying your income tax.


Top

 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 18 May 2020, 00:13 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/17/13
Posts: 6359
Post Likes: +5542
Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
Finally edited together the video of my ride in Anthony's a few months back. Pay extra attention to the fuel flows, GS and mpg! What a machine! :bow:

[youtube]http://youtu.be/VxqRU7OAKUw[/youtube]

_________________
Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.


Top

 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 18 May 2020, 08:59 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 09/02/09
Posts: 8452
Post Likes: +8428
Company: OAA
Location: Oklahoma City - PWA/Calistoga KSTS
Aircraft: UMF3, UBF 2, P180 II
Nice video Adam. More! :thumbup:

_________________
Travel Air B4000, Waco UBF2,UMF3,YMF5, UPF7,YKS 6, Fairchild 24W, Cessna 120
Never enough!


Top

 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 18 May 2020, 10:34 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/17/13
Posts: 6359
Post Likes: +5542
Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
I have to say, before my ride with Anthony and despite having had the POH for years, the one complaint I heard from operators is that it was short-legged. And with only 420gal capacity, you can see how that would appear to be correct. The long-wing Commanders have 480gal tanks with TPE331's that burn 20% less fuel, so a thirstier PT6 with less capacity doesn't look too promising on paper. But as you can probably see from video, this thing will make that fuel stretch much further than you can imagine because of its speed. We weren't even holding back much, and she still trued 350kts and averaged about 0.7nm/lb. The 1200nm range left was after we'd flown halfway to Denver from LA already. So, if you're willing to give up just a little bit more speed, this thing will go 1800nm.

And "giving up speed" in a P180 still means your just slowed down to Citation speeds. ;) :stir:

_________________
Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.


Last edited on 19 May 2020, 00:39, edited 1 time in total.

Top

 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 18 May 2020, 17:44 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 07/24/14
Posts: 1761
Post Likes: +2219
Username Protected wrote:
We weren't even holding back much, and she still trued 350kts and averaged about 0.7mpg.

I hope you did a little bit better than .7mpg, lol!

LOVED the video and the airplane.

Thanks for the ride along! :)

_________________
Jay


Top

 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 18 May 2020, 17:50 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 07/24/14
Posts: 1761
Post Likes: +2219
Can you imagine what kind of performance you would get with a TPE331 P180? Would it be feasible to mount the TPE backwards? Seems like I recall an air force drone that is TPE powered...

_________________
Jay


Top

 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 18 May 2020, 20:13 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 12/29/12
Posts: 656
Post Likes: +256
very cool video. It deserves a second and third watching.

Love the plane and the instrument panel!!!

Rgs,

Patrick


Top

 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 18 May 2020, 23:05 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/17/13
Posts: 6359
Post Likes: +5542
Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
Username Protected wrote:
We weren't even holding back much, and she still trued 350kts and averaged about 0.7mpg.

I hope you did a little bit better than .7mpg, lol!

LOVED the video and the airplane.

Thanks for the ride along! :)


Oh yeah, complete brain fart! It was 0.7nm/lb at 350TAS, which I'm not capable of converting right now to mpg as I'm cooking dinner. What does that translate to? :thumbup:
_________________
Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.


Top

 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 18 May 2020, 23:54 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 11/08/12
Posts: 6317
Post Likes: +3808
Location: San Carlos, CA - KHWD
Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
Username Protected wrote:
What does that translate to?

A sweet ride! ;)

_________________
-Jon C.


Top

 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 19 May 2020, 00:32 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 08/23/10
Posts: 849
Post Likes: +661
Username Protected wrote:
I hope you did a little bit better than .7mpg, lol!

LOVED the video and the airplane.

Thanks for the ride along! :)


Oh yeah, complete brain fart! It was 0.7nm/lb at 350TAS, which I'm not capable of converting right now to mpg as I'm cooking dinner. What does that translate to? :thumbup:


About 4.7mpg.

Top

 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 19 May 2020, 00:44 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/17/13
Posts: 6359
Post Likes: +5542
Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
Username Protected wrote:
Can you imagine what kind of performance you would get with a TPE331 P180? Would it be feasible to mount the TPE backwards? Seems like I recall an air force drone that is TPE powered...


You'd have to some sort of reversal of airflow for intake, but shouldn't be impossible. After all, that's how every PT6 does it except on the P180. Yeah, if you could mount -10's or even -12's on it, it would probably be a great performer when it comes to efficiency. But maybe the thermodynamic rating isn't enough for FL410, not sure. The PT6's are flat rated at 850shp on the P180, I wonder what their true SL power is? Probably closer to 1600shp/side.

_________________
Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.


Top

 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 19 May 2020, 14:28 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 07/24/14
Posts: 1761
Post Likes: +2219
Username Protected wrote:
Can you imagine what kind of performance you would get with a TPE331 P180? Would it be feasible to mount the TPE backwards? Seems like I recall an air force drone that is TPE powered...


You'd have to some sort of reversal of airflow for intake, but shouldn't be impossible. After all, that's how every PT6 does it except on the P180. Yeah, if you could mount -10's or even -12's on it, it would probably be a great performer when it comes to efficiency. But maybe the thermodynamic rating isn't enough for FL410, not sure. The PT6's are flat rated at 850shp on the P180, I wonder what their true SL power is? Probably closer to 1600shp/side.

No idea on the SL rating is.

Here's the drone that is TPE powered. Good ol -10. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_A ... Q-9_Reaper
_________________
Jay


Top

 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 19 May 2020, 15:52 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 05/01/14
Posts: 8803
Post Likes: +13583
Location: Операционный офис КГБ
Aircraft: TU-104
PW rates them at 950 but that’s a flat rating as well.

As for PT6 vs TPE-331, in the Piaggio, the PT6 may gain some efficiency not having to be reverse flow like it normally is, whereas the TPE would lose some, unless you could move the gear box and prop to the turbine end of the shaft. I think that would take considerable engineering effort, whereas that PT6 already had to have the prop on the “right” end.

A modern 21st century Garret pusher design engine would certainly be interesting. I doubt there is enough market for Honeywell to even give it a thought though.

_________________
Be kinder than I am. It’s a low bar.
Flight suits = superior knowledge


Top

 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 19 May 2020, 16:16 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 09/16/10
Posts: 8891
Post Likes: +1956
Fantastic video Adam, you could go into the business!
Thanks for posting!

_________________
If you think nobody cares about you. Try not paying your income tax.


Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 2882 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31 ... 193  Next




You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2024

.Foreflight_85x50_color.png.
.saint-85x50.jpg.
.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.wat-85x50.jpg.
.avionwealth-85x50.png.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.boomerang-85x50-2023-12-17.png.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.daytona.jpg.
.tempest.jpg.
.avfab-85x50-2018-12-04.png.
.lucysaviation-85x50.png.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.puremedical-85x200.jpg.
.midwest2.jpg.
.tat-85x100.png.
.kingairacademy-85x100.png.
.chairmanaviation-85x50.jpg.
.headsetsetc_Small_85x50.jpg.
.airmart-85x150.png.
.aircraftferry-85x50.jpg.
.Wingman 85x50.png.
.SCA.jpg.
.bullardaviation-85x50-2.jpg.
.CiESVer2.jpg.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.wilco-85x100.png.
.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.AAI.jpg.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.camguard.jpg.
.concorde.jpg.
.aeroled-85x50-2022-12-06.jpg.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.shortnnumbers-85x100.png.
.Rocky-Mountain-Turbine-85x100.jpg.
.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.ssv-85x50-2023-12-17.jpg.
.ei-85x150.jpg.
.Latitude.jpg.
.aircraftassociates-85x50.png.
.one-mile-up-85x100.png.
.blackwell-85x50.png.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.dbm.jpg.
.kingairnation-85x50.png.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.centex-85x50.jpg.
.Marsh.jpg.
.cav-85x50.jpg.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.