BeechTalk - BT - The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Nov 2017, 21:58

One thought on efficiency: More engines will never be more economical than fewer--said another way it's why the 747 is dying. When speed is the same, mpg works as a measure of efficiency. Since we tend to look at a fixed travel distance, time is the variable to also hold constant. The Piaggio burn at Pilatus speed is the apples to apples.

Really you should also adjust for useful load. The energy spent (fuel) to move a mass a distance in the shortest amount of time is really what you care about right? Those should be the units to compare: fuel used to carry the same payload (people/bags) over a fixed distance in equal units of time. That is efficiency.

Shorter time requires more power. It's a "luxury" you pay for. It can be mitigated by lower relative air frame drag (and/or less payload) but all things equal it is unlikely a twin will be more efficient than a single with the same engine power.

Sorry to go all engineering and that...

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Nov 2017, 22:04

I think different than you guys.

My airplane money is my fun money. I don’t want to loose my shirt but I will accept loses.

When Jason say there are 70 of some type of airplane flying and only 2 of some other type in the air. I want to know about the 2 airplanes not the 70.

Flying something interesting that has performance maybe some historical significance. It could be at a famous designer or a unique design, whatever just don’t put me in a plain Jane found everywhere airplane.

Part of the fun is pulling in to the FBO and being the only one of your type there.

If a twin beech went 1500 miles and did 300kts that’s what I would be flying.

The Piaggio is all of that!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Nov 2017, 22:10

Username Protected wrote:

I don’t want to loose my shirt but I will accept loses.
...
The Piaggio is all of that!

Well, therein lies the dilemma. One man’s losses are another man’s shirt. I think the Piaggio has a higher than average risk of getting into shirt territory.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Nov 2017, 22:14

Username Protected wrote:

Part of the fun is pulling in to the FBO and being the only one of your type there.

If a twin beech went 1500 miles and did 300kts that’s what I would be flying.

The Piaggio is all of that!

That doesn't work with airplanes FOR ME. Airplanes are 100% utility to me. I want to go from point A to point B with the least amount of problems.

I love the P180 but absolutely for the same reason I love the PC12.... Utility.

Cars and boats on the other hand are all about "style"......

We don't have to agree. Nobody is right.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Nov 2017, 23:22

Adam! Adam! My friend Adam!

Me, Tony & Chuck have a weakness for fine wine & attractive french women.

Jason, Brent & Michael P love their chocolate & swiss girls.

Charles likes his american girlfriend.

Jon, Matt, James & Mike C will die for their Japanese geisha.

Adam if I were you I would stay away from these Italian mistresses, they will leave you dry & broke.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Nov 2017, 00:05

Username Protected wrote:

Adam if I were you I would stay away from these Italian mistresses, they will leave you dry & broke.

With really really expensive shoes.... (landing gear)

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Nov 2017, 00:22

Username Protected wrote:

Adam! Adam! My friend Adam!

Me, Tony & Chuck have a weakness for fine wine & attractive french women.

Jason, Brent & Michael P love their chocolate & swiss girls.

Charles likes his american girlfriend.

Jon, Matt, James & Mike C will die for their Japanese geisha.

Adam if I were you I would stay away from these Italian mistresses, they will leave you dry & broke.

but they look so cute from the rear....

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Nov 2017, 00:36

I can get behind the philosophy being expressed in this thread.

Old & Busted saying: "All Hat, no Cattle"

New Hotness saying: "All Fun, no Shirt"

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Nov 2017, 01:03

Username Protected wrote:

Part of the fun is pulling in to the FBO and being the only one of your type there.

If a twin beech went 1500 miles and did 300kts that’s what I would be flying.

The Piaggio is all of that!

That doesn't work with airplanes FOR ME. Airplanes are 100% utility to me. I want to go from point A to point B with the least amount of problems.

I love the P180 but absolutely for the same reason I love the PC12.... Utility.

Cars and boats on the other hand are all about "style"......

We don't have to agree. Nobody is right.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Nov 2017, 01:40

Username Protected wrote:

I love cars but I don’t have a cool car I drive an old conversion van.

He sure does

Attachment:

vw-bus.jpg

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Nov 2017, 02:25

Username Protected wrote:

I'm no artist. I used to be European. I guess I still am - until Brexit is complete...

Regarding the galls/kt, I don't regard it as useful measure, but it gives a marginal advantage to the Avanti over the PC 12, 1188/364 versus 971/278. Fewer gallons per knot.

Ashley

Err, uhm, not quite sure that your math is perfect either .........

not that I'm counting or anything!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Nov 2017, 08:30

Username Protected wrote:

I love cars but I don’t have a cool car I drive an old conversion van.

He sure does

Attachment:

vw-bus.jpg

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Nov 2017, 08:36

That is a very cool car! :thumbup:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Nov 2017, 09:05

Username Protected wrote:

I simply used Adam's numbers:

I know, I was pointing out that unfortunately his numbers are wrong.......review them one more time, you'll catch his error..........he's doing his division the wrong way :eek: