banner
banner

28 Mar 2024, 19:55 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Concorde Battery (banner)



Reply to topic  [ 2840 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 126, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131, 132 ... 190  Next
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 20 Sep 2022, 06:44 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 03/03/11
Posts: 1845
Post Likes: +1819
Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
I know Avanti requires a type rating in EU as the guy I was paired w at flitesafety had a type ride after I left.

1400 miles with extended range tanks would be possible w reserves up to maybe a 50kt headwind. After that I think you are stopping.

They seem to compare favorably w the old jets. I have done the math many times and keep coming up with same conclusion.


Top

 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 20 Sep 2022, 08:10 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/11/11
Posts: 1094
Post Likes: +557
Company: FUSION
Aircraft: B300ER B200 C90 DHC6
Username Protected wrote:
My mission is EPPO-LPFR, which is 1400NM

Welcome to BT Tomasz!

An EVO article says that the addition of auxiliary tank increases the aircraft’s fuel capacity from 2,826lb to 3,226lb and the maximum range by 17%, from 1,470nmi on standard fuel to 1,720nmi (3,185km).
https://www.aerospace-technology.com/projects/piaggio-avanti-evo-business-aircraft/

Piaggio: Max Range (NBAA IFR, Increased Range Conf.) 3,278 km 1,770 NM
http://www.avantievo.piaggioaerospace.it/

With the optional aux tank and advertised range, the EVO is indeed be the best aircraft :thumbup:
You still have to account for possible rerouting, ATC [low] altitude restrictions, un-forecasted headwinds and weather, as well as comfortable reserve fuel & alternate.

EPPO-LPFR: 1,400 NM as the crow flies, but Eurocontrol Valid IFR routes are more likely 1,500+ NM.


Top

 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 20 Sep 2022, 08:56 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/11/11
Posts: 1094
Post Likes: +557
Company: FUSION
Aircraft: B300ER B200 C90 DHC6
Username Protected wrote:
My mission is EPPO-LPFR
FYI, here are some screenshots of a ForeFlight plan for today.

1,538 NM, FL380 Eurocontrol Valid, forecasted 20 Kt headwinds, Full Fuel (3,226 Lb), Recommended Cruise Power (1,800 RPM), 5h 11m, landing with 536 Lb remaining, but NO ALTERNATE!!! FF Navlog also attached.

Same flight at MAX CRUISE PWR (2,000 RPM), FL380, 4h 56m, landing with 554 Lb remaining.

Same flight at MAX CRUISE PWR (2,000 RPM), FL400, 18 Kt headwinds, 4h 59m, landing with 623 Lb remaining.

Comments from Avanti pilots? With the extended range tank experience?


Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.


Top

 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 20 Sep 2022, 15:41 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 03/03/11
Posts: 1845
Post Likes: +1819
Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
The guy I trained with at SimCom is based in Greece and flies an EVO with the bigger tank.

IIRC, he said the routings they get impact range dramatically around the EU - sounds like they get held down low a lot. EVO also sounds a little slower than my plane but that is likely b/c he is flying near gross wt a lot more than I am.

He said it is tough to stay within W&B with the extended tank full b/c the CG is so far aft. He said he cannot fly single pilot with everything full. Which makes sense, I carry 200lbs of ballast when it's just me in the plane with regular tanks.

Simple math is an Avanti I flies for ~4 hours and lands with 600lbs. 9lbs a min is a good cruise rule of thumb fuel burn, so the 400lbs buys you ~45 min. I think a 5hr flight at normal power settings would be a stretch even with the extra fuel.

It's amazing how 1300nm is a line in the sand for range. There are just not that many turbines that can hit it going into a medium or greater headwind. I feel like whatever your real world range need is, add 400 miles to it and that is what you need your NBAA range to be to never really have to stop for gas.


Top

 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 20 Sep 2022, 16:18 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 01/25/16
Posts: 8
Post Likes: +4
Username Protected wrote:
Hi What level of licence would I need to fly an Avanti and what level for an Encore+ SP? Is it PPL/IR for Piaggio and CPL for Cessna?


I looked it up for for the Encore. It takes an FAA exemption, requiring CPL. IR, CE-500 type rating, and FAA approved single pilot training course. Don't know if EASA is different or conversion.

Edit: I looked it up and Easa does not apparently have a single pilot waiver/exemption for 500 series Citations and there are restrictions for flying an EASA based aircraft on an FAA license.

There is a EASA single pilot exemption for the Cessna 550 reference EASA.A.S.02920. No idea how easy it is to actually obtain though. You would need a EASA licence however I believe to fly in the EU if you are a EU citizen or based there.
For a Citation 501/551 (and maybe 500/550 which have the exemption for SP) for the EU type rating you only need (for non commercial ops) PPL-IR, HPA course, 70hrs PIC and 200 total, 2nd class medical, MCC course certificate. I think the Avanti type rating has the same requirments. I guess a Citation 550 with Williams would be the longest range possible as they claimed 1775nm. CJ3/4 excepted.

Edit AIRLEC AIR ESPACE is the company with the EASA single pilot 550 exemption.

Top

 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 20 Sep 2022, 17:45 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 10/12/20
Posts: 181
Post Likes: +37
We use a LJ75 for our trips out West. The LJ75 can reach Seatle non-stop whereas the Piaggio might need two stops.

Your mission might be pushing range a bit. Of course, if your budget supports a PC-24/Phenom 300/CJ3 etc those would not have an issue with the distance.


Top

 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 20 Sep 2022, 20:28 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 08/09/11
Posts: 1726
Post Likes: +2048
Company: Naples Jet Center
Location: KAPF KPIA
Aircraft: EMB500 AC95 AEST
Username Protected wrote:


It's amazing how 1300nm is a line in the sand for range. There are just not that many turbines that can hit it going into a medium or greater headwind. I feel like whatever your real world range need is, add 400 miles to it and that is what you need your NBAA range to be to never really have to stop for gas.


This is so true. So for a “modern” plane you have to get to a CJ3. If you’re under $2MM in the older turboprop range, a Gulfstream version of the Commander or a 441 do 1300nm into 65 knots in 5 hours in route and land with 2 hours to fiddle around down low. So does a Merlin, but they require a Captain.. ;)


Top

 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 28 Sep 2022, 17:15 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/17/13
Posts: 6322
Post Likes: +5521
Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
Lo and behold, as I pulled around the corner today at my home airport, KEMT, what did I see in hangar where there used to be a Dolphin jet? A P180!! I got so excited I drove past and started leaning out the window - engine was off on Left side and the guys was busy, but the owner said he'd just gotten it 2 weeks ago and was very excited! Like a numb nut, I forgot to take down full tail number, but it ends with RS. Green-ish stripe down the side.

I congratulated him. First one based at this airport. Hopefully I can pop by and talk shop a little more in depth in the coming weeks and maybe point him to this thread.

_________________
Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.


Top

 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 28 Sep 2022, 18:36 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 01/01/22
Posts: 43
Post Likes: +4
Aircraft: Piaggio, Epic LT
Username Protected wrote:
Lo and behold, as I pulled around the corner today at my home airport, KEMT, what did I see in hangar where there used to be a Dolphin jet? A P180!! I got so excited I drove past and started leaning out the window - engine was off on Left side and the guys was busy, but the owner said he'd just gotten it 2 weeks ago and was very excited! Like a numb nut, I forgot to take down full tail number, but it ends with RS. Green-ish stripe down the side.

I congratulated him. First one based at this airport. Hopefully I can pop by and talk shop a little more in depth in the coming weeks and maybe point him to this thread.

I'm guessing it is 990RS, it was on controller for 1.5m. Looks like a nice plane.


Top

 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 28 Sep 2022, 18:37 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 01/01/22
Posts: 43
Post Likes: +4
Aircraft: Piaggio, Epic LT
Username Protected wrote:
Lo and behold, as I pulled around the corner today at my home airport, KEMT, what did I see in hangar where there used to be a Dolphin jet? A P180!! I got so excited I drove past and started leaning out the window - engine was off on Left side and the guys was busy, but the owner said he'd just gotten it 2 weeks ago and was very excited! Like a numb nut, I forgot to take down full tail number, but it ends with RS. Green-ish stripe down the side.

I congratulated him. First one based at this airport. Hopefully I can pop by and talk shop a little more in depth in the coming weeks and maybe point him to this thread.




I'm guessing it is 990RS, it was on controller for 1.5m. Looks like a nice plane.


Top

 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 28 Sep 2022, 22:27 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 03/22/14
Posts: 103
Post Likes: +65
Location: KMYF/ Kamiah, ID
Aircraft: C525, AC90
Username Protected wrote:
Lo and behold, as I pulled around the corner today at my home airport, KEMT, what did I see in hangar where there used to be a Dolphin jet? A P180!! I got so excited I drove past and started leaning out the window - engine was off on Left side and the guys was busy, but the owner said he'd just gotten it 2 weeks ago and was very excited! Like a numb nut, I forgot to take down full tail number, but it ends with RS. Green-ish stripe down the side.

I congratulated him. First one based at this airport. Hopefully I can pop by and talk shop a little more in depth in the coming weeks and maybe point him to this thread.


Yah Adam, that’s the Rainbow Sandals old Piaggio sn 1005. He was based out of Carlsbad.
The new owner acquired a project. Engines overdue, needs HS and probably some internal parts. Props due. I think brakes are due in 70 hrs.
Needs interior— Cloth seats and green accents throughout.
Needs paint, some fairings were cracked.
Needs a new panel, etc. etc.

I’m sure it sold much much less than asking.
You could get more details from Sy, the Piaggio mechanic out of Chino. I think he convinced the previous owner to sell to somebody rather than part it out.
Seller probably could have done better parting out, but once fully restored, 99RS could be a great airplane once it’s done.
Unfortunately now could be a tough time to get a refurb done in a timely manner.

My home base FBO is a Cirrus service center and they mentioned they wait weeks or months for some parts, which is surprising to me. All makes seem affected.
Tough time to be refurbing aircraft. :bang:

_________________
MEL, Comm. Instr. C525(S) type


Top

 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 02 Oct 2022, 01:48 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/17/13
Posts: 6322
Post Likes: +5521
Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
Correct, it's 990RS. Spoke a bit more with owner today - he came from a Hondajet previously. Saw it many times at EMT, but never knew it was his. Anyway, I recommended this thread and he said he had checked it out, so hopefully he'll come join us for the fun!

_________________
Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.


Top

 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2022, 17:19 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 04/28/21
Posts: 98
Post Likes: +62
Company: Charwood Partners
I got some time in an Avanti last week. I've seen the light. I want one. Now I gotta figure out how to pay for it.


Top

 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2022, 13:04 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 04/20/15
Posts: 556
Post Likes: +311
Location: KFAT
P180 owners--is there any difference between Avanti 1 vs 2 environmental system?

Is one better than the other for cooling?


Top

 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2022, 16:11 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 09/26/09
Posts: 1407
Post Likes: +872
Company: ElitAire
Location: Columbus, OH - KCMH
Aircraft: Piaggio P180
Username Protected wrote:
P180 owners--is there any difference between Avanti 1 vs 2 environmental system?

Is one better than the other for cooling?


Early serial numbers (1045 and lower and 1051,1052,1054) came with Hamilton Standard single zone system that had optional freon air conditioner.

The remainder have an Envirosystem, ACM + Freon, two zones (cockpit + cabin). I am a 2003 Avanti 1, serial #1063, so it's not I or II, it's by serial number. I have found this system works well, sometimes might be a little light on heat up high in the cabin (but definitely manageable). Freon air on the summer tarmac when you have a GPU availalble is priceless.


Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 2840 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 126, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131, 132 ... 190  Next




You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2024

.CiESVer2.jpg.
.centex-85x50.jpg.
.AAI.jpg.
.kingairacademy-85x100.png.
.shortnnumbers-85x100.png.
.daytona.jpg.
.saint-85x50.jpg.
.midwest2.jpg.
.dbm.jpg.
.Wingman 85x50.png.
.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.Genesys_85x50.jpg.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.
.blackwell-85x50.png.
.wilco-85x100.png.
.wat-85x50.jpg.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.
.tempest.jpg.
.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.ssv-85x50-2023-12-17.jpg.
.avfab-85x50-2018-12-04.png.
.Rocky-Mountain-Turbine-85x100.jpg.
.Marsh.jpg.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.chairmanaviation-85x50.jpg.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.camguard.jpg.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.headsetsetc_Small_85x50.jpg.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.SCA.jpg.
.bullardaviation-85x50-2.jpg.
.avionwealth-85x50.png.
.cav-85x50.jpg.
.Foreflight_85x50_color.png.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.pure-medical-85x150.png.
.boomerang-85x50-2023-12-17.png.
.kingairnation-85x50.png.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.ei-85x150.jpg.
.lucysaviation-85x50.png.
.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.airmart-85x150.png.
.aeroled-85x50-2022-12-06.jpg.
.one-mile-up-85x100.png.
.concorde.jpg.
.tat-85x100.png.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.aircraftferry-85x50.jpg.
.Latitude.jpg.
.aircraftassociates-85x50.png.