29 Mar 2024, 04:31 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 15 Jul 2019, 16:40 |
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Joined: 12/17/13 Posts: 6322 Post Likes: +5522 Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
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Username Protected wrote: Here’s my take. With thousands of hours in king airs, the Avanti II is like moving into the next century. The plane makes a King Air seem like an old truck (and I do love king airs), but hands down there’s absolutely no comparison. It’s easy to fly single pilot and the proline 21 is easy to work with. Up front is super quiet and the boss loves it in the cabin. There’s just nothing that handles like it and nothing that can compare on a per hour cost basis. Only thing I could maybe wish for would be 500lbs or so more fuel. Oh, wow! Nice to hear from someone that flies them! Tell us more - what's your main mission? I heard there's a 60gal aux tank that takes the place of the closet, but that it's pretty expensive to install. I've also heard from other users, just like you, that they think it's a little short on fuel. 420gal is a little light for such a big aircraft.
_________________ Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 05 Aug 2019, 08:17 |
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Joined: 07/11/11 Posts: 2252 Post Likes: +2214 Location: Queretaro / Woodlands
Aircraft: C525 BE40 D1K Waco
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Username Protected wrote: Here’s my take. With thousands of hours in king airs, the Avanti II is like moving into the next century. The plane makes a King Air seem like an old truck (and I do love king airs), but hands down there’s absolutely no comparison. It’s easy to fly single pilot and the proline 21 is easy to work with. Up front is super quiet and the boss loves it in the cabin. There’s just nothing that handles like it and nothing that can compare on a per hour cost basis. Only thing I could maybe wish for would be 500lbs or so more fuel. Oh, wow! Nice to hear from someone that flies them! Tell us more - what's your main mission? I heard there's a 60gal aux tank that takes the place of the closet, but that it's pretty expensive to install. I've also heard from other users, just like you, that they think it's a little short on fuel. 420gal is a little light for such a big aircraft. Adam and Richard - some friends of mine in Queretaro are about to close on the purchase of an Avanti I. I tried to steer them away, but they were swayed by the price, the supposedly good condition of the A/C and perceived bang for the buck (someone has sold them the idea they can fly this thing for less than 1000 per hour - thoughts?). These guys are non-pilots but I respect their business sense.
Do you know of a good place to get operating advice for the P180? Also, they want to use the same 1500 hour pilot who flew their Mirage but is very short on turbine and multi experience. What would you recommend wrt to getting this guy up to speed? FlightSafety?
Last edited on 05 Aug 2019, 08:25, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 05 Aug 2019, 08:24 |
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Joined: 01/29/08 Posts: 26431 Post Likes: +13064 Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: Here’s my take. With thousands of hours in king airs, the Avanti II is like moving into the next century. The plane makes a King Air seem like an old truck (and I do love king airs), but hands down there’s absolutely no comparison. It’s easy to fly single pilot and the proline 21 is easy to work with. Up front is super quiet and the boss loves it in the cabin. There’s just nothing that handles like it and nothing that can compare on a per hour cost basis. Only thing I could maybe wish for would be 500lbs or so more fuel. Nobody has every questioned the awesomeness of the Avanti. Can you give any info on reliability, service and parts availability.
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 05 Aug 2019, 09:15 |
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Joined: 12/17/13 Posts: 6322 Post Likes: +5522 Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
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Username Protected wrote: Adam and Richard - some friends of mine in Queretaro are about to close on the purchase of an Avanti I. I tried to steer them away, but they were swayed by the price, the supposedly good condition of the A/C and perceived bang for the buck (someone has sold them the idea they can fly this thing for less than 1000 per hour - thoughts?). These guys are non-pilots but I respect their business sense.
Do you know of a good place to get operating advice for the P180? Also, they want to use the same 1500 hour pilot who flew their Mirage but is very short on turbine and multi experience. What would you recommend wrt to getting this guy up to speed? FlightSafety? FlightSafety has good reputation and are thorough, but it is costly. Simsair do it in the customers airframe. If it were me (and I'm low time myself but almost all of it multi), I think doing the initial in the aircraft would probably be the best for me personally, as it is more tactile and I retain better when it's 'for real'. The P180 lands fast and demands a bit from its pilot in that phase, so it's good to experience that away from the sim. Then after that I'd go sim-based for recurring every second time, I think. Just to keep sharp on those emergency procedures. I don't think you can fly a P180 for $1000/hr, but it's probably very close if you're vigilant. I would think it's a $1100-1200/hr plane. You're pretty much confined to using service centers on a complex machine like this. Banyan Air here in US the most widespread P180 repair station, but there are others. Not sure what the situation is in Mexico, but prob less prevalence. You also have to take into account that the 6000hr/12 year gear overhaul, which is optional part 91 in FAA land. If it's XB- reg it probably isn't (seems that SB's in most CAA jurisdictions are regarded as AD's). That's a $250-350K expense and can make the difference between achieving a low hourly operating cost or not. P180's need a bit of runway and are also not great climbers, so that might affect where you can base it. Please keep us informed about how they progress and what their ownership experiences are. It's always very useful info to add to the collective knowledge base!
_________________ Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.
Last edited on 06 Aug 2019, 04:12, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 05 Aug 2019, 19:38 |
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Joined: 10/10/14 Posts: 1472 Post Likes: +1199 Location: St George UT
Aircraft: Mooney D 1964
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Just had one of them things pick up what looked to be a charter here in Page AZ a few days ago.
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 05 Aug 2019, 21:04 |
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Joined: 01/29/08 Posts: 26431 Post Likes: +13064 Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: I don’t understand why they were not more popular.
Parts and support. Many articles on the subject. Just google Avantair.
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 05 Aug 2019, 21:32 |
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Joined: 10/26/16 Posts: 496 Post Likes: +692
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Username Protected wrote: I don’t understand why they were not more popular.
Parts and support. Many articles on the subject. Just google Avantair.
I don't think parts' availability was Avantair's problem. The issue was their checks kept on bouncing and nobody would front them parts on credit.
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 05 Aug 2019, 22:14 |
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Joined: 07/19/18 Posts: 368 Post Likes: +154
Aircraft: On the hunt...
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FWIW and just another couple of datapoints - I read somewhere the other day that the Italian government just injected significant money into Piaggio. While that *might* be good news the question would be if all future emphasis is going to be on the defense side. The other may have come up here before. Piaggio and RUAG developed a retro fit gear kit like the one on the EVO for unknown cost but it seemed *reasonable* when I heard it. Raised the gear to 15, 000 hours/15 years IIRC.
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