18 Apr 2024, 22:50 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 15 Oct 2020, 19:50 |
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Joined: 11/30/12 Posts: 4006 Post Likes: +4411 Location: Santa Fe, NM (KSAF)
Aircraft: B200, 500B
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Username Protected wrote: Jim what did you end up with instead? I'm picking up my B200 Monday. It's less ego-bruising to say "It uses too much runway" instead of "I can't afford it."
_________________ Be Nice
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 15 Oct 2020, 20:32 |
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Joined: 09/02/09 Posts: 8448 Post Likes: +8426 Company: OAA Location: Oklahoma City - PWA/Calistoga KSTS
Aircraft: UMF3, UBF 2, P180 II
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Username Protected wrote: Jim what did you end up with instead? I'm picking up my B200 Monday. It's less ego-bruising to say "It uses too much runway" instead of "I can't afford it."
Jim,
I'll bet you paid more for the B200 than I did for a P180II. As to the runway, while it is intimidating (because I'm not used to flying the P18) - and because KWVI has been a %#$@ show for the last few days) it's perfectly safe and a good distance to train on as it forces good technique. I've been intentionally forthright here about the good, bad, ugly and my own foibles as a pilot. But I don't think the airplane is unsafe, difficult to fly or crippled operationally in any way. Just the opposite.
Congrats on the new plane! I'm hoping for photos.
_________________ Travel Air B4000, Waco UBF2,UMF3,YMF5, UPF7,YKS 6, Fairchild 24W, Cessna 120 Never enough!
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 15 Oct 2020, 23:27 |
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Joined: 11/30/12 Posts: 4006 Post Likes: +4411 Location: Santa Fe, NM (KSAF)
Aircraft: B200, 500B
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Username Protected wrote: Jim, I'll bet you paid more for the B200 than I did for a P180II. As to the runway, while it is intimidating (because I'm not used to flying the P18) - and because KWVI has been a %#$@ show for the last few days) it's perfectly safe and a good distance to train on as it forces good technique. I've been intentionally forthright here about the good, bad, ugly and my own foibles as a pilot. But I don't think the airplane is unsafe, difficult to fly or crippled operationally in any way. Just the opposite. Congrats on the new plane! I'm hoping for photos. Thanks, and congrats to you as well! I didn't think the P180 had any bad tendencies as far as flying safety. The incredible pressurization is a big bump in single-pilot safety as far as I'm concerned - although you have to wear a mask to take advantage of the top altitudes. There were other factors in my decision. I was a fan of the B200's universal serviceability, and I am a fan of planes that take off and land slower. From all the published numbers I've found, the B200's published takeoff and landing distances are at least 25% shorter than a P180. Informal notes from a few P180 pilots suggest that the book runway numbers are harder to achieve in a P180 than they are in a B200. FWIW, my published 50ft obstacle takeoff distance on a standard say at sea level is less than 2200 ft at full gross. It takes everyone a while to get used to landing new airframes anywhere near book numbers. I still remember my first night landing in my C340 - I turned off on a taxiway about 6,000' from the threshold. Be careful about betting on the purchase price. I used Chip McClure *and* bought one of the oldest B200s still flying. I'll take that bet for pink slips. I'll save my photos for another thread. This thread is about the magnificent P180 (and comparing it to planes that don't go as fast.)
_________________ Be Nice
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 16 Oct 2020, 03:06 |
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Joined: 08/23/10 Posts: 849 Post Likes: +661
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Username Protected wrote: FWIW, my published 50ft obstacle takeoff distance on a standard say at sea level is less than 2200 ft at full gross. Impressive. Which engines?
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 16 Oct 2020, 09:38 |
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Joined: 11/30/12 Posts: 4006 Post Likes: +4411 Location: Santa Fe, NM (KSAF)
Aircraft: B200, 500B
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Username Protected wrote: FWIW, my published 50ft obstacle takeoff distance on a standard say at sea level is less than 2200 ft at full gross. Impressive. Which engines?
-42s, with the Raisbeck Gold package.
Here are more numbers from my manuals that I'd really like to see for the P180:
Santa Fe, July: Accelerate-go for 6400' MSL on a 30 degree day is about 9,000 ft. Ground roll is about 3,300 ft.
Telluride, July: Accelerate-go for 9000' MSL on a 20 degree day is about 10,700 ft. Ground roll is about 3,800 ft.
Both scenarios are likely possibilities for me.
_________________ Be Nice
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 16 Oct 2020, 18:37 |
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Joined: 01/12/10 Posts: 404 Post Likes: +782 Location: Dallas, Texas
Aircraft: Piaggio P180, TTx
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The P180II actually can land quite short with its reverse and its carbon brakes...but I don't want to honk down hard on those expensive brakes until I get some steel ones and avoid the 80,000 dollar over haul cost(!!!!). 4500' long runways are my minimum.... that way I dont have to touch the brakes until 50 knots and below. Nice day coming home from The Saint today in NOLA.... FL 300, +8 degrees and 379 knots. 670 lbs/hr. (Did I tell you how quiet it is? ) Attachment: QOxtdoCYTTiw714eoKAqDw.jpg Attachment: Mc5A7F3eTRC%9mklJHiPLQ.jpg
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 16 Oct 2020, 19:19 |
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Joined: 11/30/12 Posts: 4006 Post Likes: +4411 Location: Santa Fe, NM (KSAF)
Aircraft: B200, 500B
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Username Protected wrote: the 80,000 dollar over haul cost(!!!!). I will say that it DEFINTELY uses too much runway for me.
_________________ Be Nice
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 17 Oct 2020, 11:49 |
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Joined: 01/31/12 Posts: 3094 Post Likes: +5447 Company: French major Location: France
Aircraft: Ejet
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Username Protected wrote: The P180II actually can land quite short with its reverse and its carbon brakes...but I don't want to honk down hard on those expensive brakes until I get some steel ones and avoid the 80,000 dollar over haul cost(!!!!).
4500' long runways are my minimum.... that way I dont have to touch the brakes until 50 knots and below.
Certainly not telling you how to fly your plane, even more so as I'm not rated on the Piaggio (only the Vespa ones, and I crashed it), but could I recommend you still tap the brakes on touchdown, just to be sure? Touch, positive braking, reverse, let go of the brakes if you choose to do so. At least you know what you're dealing with, and if you need to quickly get your hands on that parking brake.
_________________ Singham!
Last edited on 17 Oct 2020, 12:18, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 17 Oct 2020, 13:04 |
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Joined: 08/23/10 Posts: 849 Post Likes: +661
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Username Protected wrote: -42s, with the Raisbeck Gold package.
Here are more numbers from my manuals that I'd really like to see for the P180:
Santa Fe, July: Accelerate-go for 6400' MSL on a 30 degree day is about 9,000 ft. Ground roll is about 3,300 ft.
Telluride, July: Accelerate-go for 9000' MSL on a 20 degree day is about 10,700 ft. Ground roll is about 3,800 ft.
Both scenarios are likely possibilities for me.
The P180 POH I have indicates 3,700' ground run and 7,000' accelerate go distance at Santa Fe at that temp, and 3,900' ground roll and 7,400' accelerate go at Telluride at that temp. Not bad. I'm not sure the long runway criticism is warranted. Maybe it's more difficult to achieve book numbers in the P180?
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 17 Oct 2020, 15:02 |
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Joined: 06/09/09 Posts: 4573 Post Likes: +3298
Aircraft: C182P, Merlin IIIC
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Congrats to all the BT guys now flying the really cool Avanti. While I’m not in that club I definitely think Adam F deserves a round of applause for always bringing up the qualities of this unique aircraft back when no one else did. I have been thinking about this aircraft and the altitudes/speed regime in flys in and realized I have never heard of an inflight breakup of an Avanti. Is this the case? A tough bird. Hope y’all enjoy it.
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 17 Oct 2020, 15:11 |
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Joined: 09/02/09 Posts: 8448 Post Likes: +8426 Company: OAA Location: Oklahoma City - PWA/Calistoga KSTS
Aircraft: UMF3, UBF 2, P180 II
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Username Protected wrote: Congrats to all the BT guys now flying the really cool Avanti. While I’m not in that club I definitely think Adam F deserves a round of applause for always bringing up the qualities of this unique aircraft back when no one else did. I have been thinking about this aircraft and the altitudes/speed regime in flys in and realized I have never heard of an inflight breakup of an Avanti. Is this the case? A tough bird. Hope y’all enjoy it. (we need a wine glass clinking emoji for Adam!)
_________________ Travel Air B4000, Waco UBF2,UMF3,YMF5, UPF7,YKS 6, Fairchild 24W, Cessna 120 Never enough!
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 17 Oct 2020, 16:38 |
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Joined: 07/24/14 Posts: 1760 Post Likes: +2217
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Username Protected wrote: Congrats to all the BT guys now flying the really cool Avanti. While I’m not in that club I definitely think Adam F deserves a round of applause for always bringing up the qualities of this unique aircraft back when no one else did. I have been thinking about this aircraft and the altitudes/speed regime in flys in and realized I have never heard of an inflight breakup of an Avanti. Is this the case? A tough bird. Hope y’all enjoy it. Your challenge, Erwin, is the P180 doesn't have long enough legs, correct?
_________________ Jay
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