banner
banner

29 Mar 2024, 01:43 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Concorde Battery (banner)



Reply to topic  [ 2841 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49 ... 190  Next
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2020, 17:43 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/17/13
Posts: 6322
Post Likes: +5522
Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
And the big block PT6's can't be put on MORE program. You just have to run them over and take your chances.

_________________
Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.


Top

 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2020, 17:55 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/16/11
Posts: 11105
Post Likes: +7090
Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Aircraft: PC12NG, G3Tat
Username Protected wrote:
And the big block PT6's can't be put on MORE program. You just have to run them over and take your chances.


Anyone called my crew at Covington for a quote?

_________________
---Rusty Shoe Keeper---


Top

 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2020, 17:59 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 10/12/20
Posts: 181
Post Likes: +37
I haven't, but I'm happy to do so.


Top

 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2020, 20:20 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 08/24/13
Posts: 8409
Post Likes: +3662
Company: Aviation Tools / CCX
Location: KSMQ New Jersey
Aircraft: TBM700C2
Username Protected wrote:
And the big block PT6's can't be put on MORE program. You just have to run them over and take your chances.


Anyone called my crew at Covington for a quote?


Who's a good person to talk to there?

Top

 Post subject:
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2020, 21:01 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 09/02/09
Posts: 8415
Post Likes: +8303
Company: OAA
Location: Oklahoma City - PWA/Calistoga KSTS
Aircraft: UMF3, UBF 2, P180 II
I just wrapped up about 30 hours of training in the airplane during a trip to California over the last few days.

The P180 is an intimidating machine at first. At least for me. I started with 4 years of TBM turbine experience but only 17.7 hours of twin time! All my flying up til now has been either Garmin glass or steam. I've never flown a Proline 21 airplane before and there is a lot to learn there.

Like any new airplane nothing is where you expect it to be and you have to learn where all the switches are, etc. So, I was reminded in the first couple of days that we're all incompetent at some things but we can fix that with work.

Our first flights were air work and pattern work. As I said in an earlier post it stalls very well. As I got more and more used to flying it by hand I found the P180 to have pretty well balanced flight controls and its easy to fly by hand. The tricky parts are takeoffs and landings! Taking off I miss the torque limiter on the TBM. No idea why there isn't one here but it's amazingly easy to push over 100%. As a new twin pilot I am still struggling to perfect perfectly balanced power with asymmetric throttles. I'll get there but it's still work. Other than balancing power and not over torqueing you only have to worry about turning of the nosewheel steering before 60. After that it's a piece of cake.

Landings are fun but there's a lot going on. First this plane flies approaches and the pattern much faster than I'm used to. So, there's no time to relax or be complacent. Speed control on short final is challenging to maintain Vref but not allow speed to deteriorate. In a 30 degree banked turn from base to final at 125 knots the stall horn will go off so I'm flying it faster than that despite reassurance from my instructor. It doesn't stall anywhere close to that in a 30 degree bank but the warning is unnerving there. After touching down and moving throttles to Beta you pull the condition levers t ground idle and then click on steering below 60. That's getting automatic but it's two more things to think about. And, if you pull the props back too much and move the nosewheel, well let's just say it gets real exciting real fast...

The biggest challenge so far has been Proline but I'm getting the hang of it. It makes logical sense but there is just a lot of new things to learn. I really like the way it and the auto pilot fly missed approaches, holds, approach entries, etc. It's a great system. My plane is getting LPV finished next week but a lot of these planes are only equipped to fly non precision RNAV's. We flew a lot of them along with localizer approaches. I've done them with Garmin on IPC's every year but flying stabilized advisory GS technique. We did dive and drive and there is a lot to do on altitude maintenance. Great work outs and I thoroughly enjoyed that.

I think my wife was having serious second thoughts a few days ago on our arrival inton KWVI. They were having a GA "airshow". Really it was a %#$@ show and the pattern and area had people who apparently have never learned to make position calls. Add traffic alerts to my instructor's confusion on runway alignment as a perfect base for an incompetent pilot and the arrival and landing were close to aerobatic. Coming home today she said "you've learned a lot in three days!"

I've still got a lot to learn and am headed to Flight Safety in about 10 days. I'm looking forward to further uncovering of my lack of ability followed by becoming a safe P180 pilot!

So far I really like this airplane. It is everything I thought it would be. I've attached two pictures just to prove it really is damned fast! The first was early flight today when we were about 11,000 pounds and the second we were about 10,000. It was warm today as well so I expect faster. Both were at FL350.


Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.

_________________
Travel Air B4000, Waco UBF2,UMF3,YMF5, UPF7,YKS 6, Fairchild 24W, Cessna 120
Never enough!


Top

 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2020, 21:58 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 07/24/14
Posts: 1754
Post Likes: +2213
Username Protected wrote:
I just wrapped up about 30 hours of training in the airplane during a trip to California over the last few days...

Great writeup Tony. Thanks for taking the time to document your first experiences.

_________________
Jay


Top

 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2020, 00:48 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/17/13
Posts: 6322
Post Likes: +5522
Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
Tony, thanks for info. You're not the first to say that it's a little bit challenging as SP on approaches - one of the dealers I spoke to a few years back said he thought it was a handful and wouldn't fly it unless he did at least 100hrs/year.

_________________
Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.


Top

 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2020, 01:16 
Online


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/02/08
Posts: 7202
Post Likes: +5102
Company: Rusnak Auto Group
Location: Newport Coast, CA
Aircraft: Baron B55 N7123N
Tony, excellent glimpse into what it’s like to fly that hot rod. I had to take more than one look at your photos to make sure my eyes weren’t deceiving me. That sucker is fast, I mean really fast!

_________________
STAND UP FOR YOUR COUNTRY

Sven


Top

 Post subject: 1
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2020, 08:47 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 09/02/09
Posts: 8415
Post Likes: +8303
Company: OAA
Location: Oklahoma City - PWA/Calistoga KSTS
Aircraft: UMF3, UBF 2, P180 II
Username Protected wrote:
Tony, thanks for info. You're not the first to say that it's a little bit challenging as SP on approaches - one of the dealers I spoke to a few years back said he thought it was a handful and wouldn't fly it unless he did at least 100hrs/year.


I wouldn't either! Long runways certainly give more confidence. Said another way, shorter runways like the 4500 feet at KWVI are a bit intimidating. The end comes very quickly. Very doable but I'm not used to lifting off or stopping that close to the other end.

One other point about the plane I didn't mention yesterday but Anthony reminded me of is the incredible pressurization system. At FL350 we were at a 5,000 foot cabin. And with the engines way in the back there is virtually no vibration. Finally, it is, as Mark keeps saying, very quiet (you can pull your headset off and talk in normal voice tones with perfect clarity). All this means a big time, very noticeable, reduction in fatigue.

Anthony also asked me to compare my trip home yesterday (1200 NM and 3:18) to previous TBM trips. Looking through my log book I see that those trips averaged a bit over 4 hours with some quite a bit longer. An example was the last trip home in August which was 4.7 hours due to lots of deviating around storms. At FL350 (and certainly FL400-410) I'd be over them. That extra hour, in and out of the soup and turb, with the louder cockpit with more vibration adds up to a lot of fatigue. There is a price for the extra speed and comfort as I burned an extra 75 gallons of $3 Jet A. And the airplane will cost more to maintain (although my Cap cost was 20% less). All in all I'm very pleased.

_________________
Travel Air B4000, Waco UBF2,UMF3,YMF5, UPF7,YKS 6, Fairchild 24W, Cessna 120
Never enough!


Top

 Post subject: Re: 1
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2020, 16:02 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 11/30/12
Posts: 4006
Post Likes: +4410
Location: Santa Fe, NM (KSAF)
Aircraft: B200, 500B
Username Protected wrote:
shorter runways like the 4500 feet at KWVI are a bit intimidating.

That is the main reason they didn't make my list of possible airframes. Pity - the other performance numbers are amazing.

_________________
Be Nice


Top

 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2020, 16:16 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 03/03/11
Posts: 1845
Post Likes: +1819
Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
It really isn't a 'bad' short field plane. I have heard of a few people operating them out of 3k strips and one flies out of Palo Alto, which is 2700ft I think? You just have to be on your game to do that. You can eat up a lot of runway setting torque on takeoff and short landings require immediate reverse and full braking. That said, it stops RAPIDLY with full braking application.


Top

 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2020, 16:24 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 11/30/12
Posts: 4006
Post Likes: +4410
Location: Santa Fe, NM (KSAF)
Aircraft: B200, 500B
Username Protected wrote:
It really isn't a 'bad' short field plane. I have heard of a few people operating them out of 3k strips and one flies out of Palo Alto, which is 2700ft I think? You just have to be on your game to do that. You can eat up a lot of runway setting torque on takeoff and short landings require immediate reverse and full braking. That said, it stops RAPIDLY with full braking application.

Can you share accelerate-stop/go numbers for both sea level and for a 8000' DA at gross?

_________________
Be Nice


Top

 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2020, 16:41 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 11/11/12
Posts: 1560
Post Likes: +809
Location: san francisco (KHAF)
Aircraft: C55 baron
Username Protected wrote:
It really isn't a 'bad' short field plane. I have heard of a few people operating them out of 3k strips and one flies out of Palo Alto, which is 2700ft I think?

Even shorter – Palo Alto (KPAO) is 2450, San Carlos (KSQL) is 2600.


Top

 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2020, 18:50 
Online


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 11/08/12
Posts: 6232
Post Likes: +3735
Location: San Carlos, CA - KHWD
Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
Username Protected wrote:
It really isn't a 'bad' short field plane. I have heard of a few people operating them out of 3k strips and one flies out of Palo Alto, which is 2700ft I think?

Yeah, I know of the guy at Palo Alto, he's been operating there for years. He operates as Rossi Aircraft, in fact you can see the Piaggio hangared in the photos on his web site.

KPAO runway is 2443' long.

_________________
-Jon C.


Top

 Post subject: Re: 1
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2020, 19:34 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 04/20/09
Posts: 673
Post Likes: +187
Location: KMMU / Morristown, NJ
Aircraft: Cheyenne (58P prior)
Username Protected wrote:
shorter runways like the 4500 feet at KWVI are a bit intimidating.

That is the main reason they didn't make my list of possible airframes. Pity - the other performance numbers are amazing.

Jim what did you end up with instead?

Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 2841 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49 ... 190  Next




You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2024

.bullardaviation-85x50-2.jpg.
.dbm.jpg.
.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.cav-85x50.jpg.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.boomerang-85x50-2023-12-17.png.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.camguard.jpg.
.wilco-85x100.png.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.saint-85x50.jpg.
.Foreflight_85x50_color.png.
.Genesys_85x50.jpg.
.concorde.jpg.
.pure-medical-85x150.png.
.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.
.Latitude.jpg.
.avionwealth-85x50.png.
.avfab-85x50-2018-12-04.png.
.midwest2.jpg.
.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.Rocky-Mountain-Turbine-85x100.jpg.
.aeroled-85x50-2022-12-06.jpg.
.blackwell-85x50.png.
.chairmanaviation-85x50.jpg.
.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.tempest.jpg.
.headsetsetc_Small_85x50.jpg.
.Marsh.jpg.
.kingairacademy-85x100.png.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.Wingman 85x50.png.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.
.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.aircraftassociates-85x50.png.
.lucysaviation-85x50.png.
.kingairnation-85x50.png.
.airmart-85x150.png.
.shortnnumbers-85x100.png.
.ei-85x150.jpg.
.centex-85x50.jpg.
.one-mile-up-85x100.png.
.SCA.jpg.
.daytona.jpg.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.CiESVer2.jpg.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.tat-85x100.png.
.AAI.jpg.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.ssv-85x50-2023-12-17.jpg.
.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.wat-85x50.jpg.
.aircraftferry-85x50.jpg.