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28 Mar 2024, 09:25 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 12 May 2022, 10:12 
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So I stand corrected!

FF support had told me about that speed/alt feature and I used it and added waypoints and crossings I always get coming back into Denver into flight planning. It lengthened the trip enough that it changed the descent profile so that when I looked at the log the crossing altitudes were about what I put - close enough that I didn't notice they were not exact and the fuel burns went up just due to the added length. I had used it on multiple flights back into Denver in last few weeks and it improved accuracy of my planning - now I am realizing that was only due to the added leg lengths. Shoot.

What it will do though, which I also found out via FF support, is automatically put in a step climb into your flight log. So at gross weight my plane profile says I cannot make FL410. It will automatically put in a step climb as you burn off enough fuel to make it. That does show up in the log, fuel burns etc BUT you cannot control it. This was the initial conversation I had with FF support, I was trying to find a way to set that climb myself.

Sorry for any confusion and once again the BT brain trust makes me smarter. I would have incorrectly used this feature for a while I am sure.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 15 May 2022, 23:07 
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I have been studying which turbo prop to purchase for part 135 operations. I am between the KA200 and a Piaggio. The Piaggio seems like a great choice, however I am concerned about being grounded for extended periods of time waiting on parts. Any thoughts on this concern?


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 15 May 2022, 23:11 
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Username Protected wrote:
I have been studying which turbo prop to purchase for part 135 operations. I am between the KA200 and a Piaggio. The Piaggio seems like a great choice, however I am concerned about being grounded for extended periods of time waiting on parts. Any thoughts on this concern?


How does insurance compare?


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 16 May 2022, 06:43 
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Username Protected wrote:
I have been studying which turbo prop to purchase for part 135 operations. I am between the KA200 and a Piaggio. The Piaggio seems like a great choice, however I am concerned about being grounded for extended periods of time waiting on parts. Any thoughts on this concern?


My plane has been down since Jan with no end in sight waiting on parts. So it's a legitimate concern.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 16 May 2022, 08:42 
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Username Protected wrote:
I have been studying which turbo prop to purchase for part 135 operations. I am between the KA200 and a Piaggio. The Piaggio seems like a great choice, however I am concerned about being grounded for extended periods of time waiting on parts. Any thoughts on this concern?


one of my major decision factors when I buy a new capital expense item for a company making money, is especially the difficulty getting it serviced and the downtime that occurs. the cost of keeping it running is not as big a factor.

so if is for a business, I would buy the KA200 even though I think the Avanti is really a great aircraft.

I bought a $6000 IBM for my new company in the early 80's when Kapro was half the cost and had more computing power but I knew IBM would stand behind it.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 16 May 2022, 10:00 
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Username Protected wrote:
My plane has been down since Jan with no end in sight waiting on parts. So it's a legitimate concern.

:ohno:

What parts are you waiting on, Matt?

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 16 May 2022, 16:12 
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Corrosion issues caused a number of parts to be condemned. I think we have two outstanding parts yet. One is the prop hub. Another unrelated one is the rudder trim actuator. The rebuild time on that actuator is like 3 months.

If I try and see my glass 1/2 full, I will at least have a nice Piaggio prop-ceiling fan for the office.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 16 May 2022, 21:17 
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Username Protected wrote:
Corrosion issues caused a number of parts to be condemned. I think we have two outstanding parts yet. One is the prop hub. Another unrelated one is the rudder trim actuator. The rebuild time on that actuator is like 3 months.

If I try and see my glass 1/2 full, I will at least have a nice Piaggio prop-ceiling fan for the office.


Matt, isn't the prop hub a Hartzell part?

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Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 17 May 2022, 12:59 
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It is, but its still not readily available. From what I'm told it's basically Piaggio specific since the hub is different right from left and there are not many (or any) other twin PT6A-66A planes.

Its just one example of many. In fact, we just sold our old (and damaged) windshield to someone else because there were not any available in the US. And a new one has a 9mon lead time from PPG. We were gonna hold onto it for a rainy day but supply is so tight for others. Windshields replacements aren't common but when you need one, you need one.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 17 May 2022, 13:06 
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Those are definitely not problems you would have with a KA, good to know- thank you for sharing


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 21 May 2022, 10:02 
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This may be the most informative Piaggio thread anywhere on the internet. Thanks to all who have shared.

I became fascinated with the Piaggio after hearing a very distinct plane flying over the house regularly. Finally heard one coming in the distance one day and ran outside to see it fly over, and had to look it up online using search terms like “plane with backwards propellers”…been obsessed with it since. I’ve seen a few Starships fly over which sound similar, but to me their sound is deeper and not as “sharp.” The Piaggio had such an impact on me that now I can often tell what plane is flying overhead just by its sound (excluding commercial jets).

I live near KADS and would love to see a Piaggio up close sometime if anyone happens to be flying through and can spare a few minutes.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 21 May 2022, 16:33 
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Joined: 12/19/09
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Company: Premier Bone and Joint
Location: Wyoming
Aircraft: BE90,HUSK,MU-2
I use a service center for my MU-2 that is also a service center for the Piaggio. I have seen many at the site getting service when bringing mine in. They work on King Airs too. I asked the maintenance team about the Piaggio and they strongly recommended against it, not due to anything wrong with the plane (it is quiet, fast, and high flying with pretty good range), but because they suggest that compared to the MU-2, parts are hard to come by, very expensive and have a long lead time, they also feel the plane is not as “easy” to work on. Granted, they have probably been working MU-2’s longer than the Piaggios, but still, an interesting opinion. Two weeks ago, had my plane at the shop for annual, pitot/static, 100/200/600 inspections which were completed in 5 business days including rebuilding two starter/generators, replacing a tire, swapping batteries front to back with CAP check and replacing an oil cooler vernatherm. They also found a bad timer for the boots and a weak manifold distributing bleed air for the boots so they replaced those too. All parts were available within a day. On Wednesday, during the final phase of inspections, they found that a cabin window had a crack under the plastic surround that had been missed during initial walk-around inspection. They called to inform me of this and I assumed my plane would be “down for a few weeks”. The part was delivered in 18 hours and installed by the time I arrived on Friday to take the plane back home. I had a couple Aerostars before this Mitsubishi and had some down times of 4 months waiting for engines to be repaired etc. The Piaggio sounds like a wonderful flying machine, but I don’t think I could give up the “U” for “Utility” in my MU-2. At least for now, parts, while a bit more expensive than 5 years ago, are still quite available.
We had a windshield crack in flight on one of our King Airs a couple weeks ago too…that plane was out for a few weeks.

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 21 May 2022, 20:48 
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I hope this doesn’t come off moochy but if anyone knows of one in the Chicago area that would be happy to show their Avanti off, please let me know. There’s a young CFII that works at KDPA who mentioned to me that he would really like to check one out (they only fly into DPA occasionally) because it’s one of the planes that gets him excited when he sees one.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 21 May 2022, 21:38 
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speaking of windshields - the issues with most piaggio's, and a lot of turbine planes, is the layers delaminate and create hazing that eventually obscures visibility.

there is a company in CO that takes the windshield, puts it in a custom autoclave, and remelts the inner layers back to good. Supposedly works well and is about 1/10th the cost of a new windshield.

http://propolish100.com/

really interesting folks to talk to - they have given new life to a lot of turbine windshields, including Piaggio's.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 22 May 2022, 07:47 
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Joined: 12/19/09
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Company: Premier Bone and Joint
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Aircraft: BE90,HUSK,MU-2
I have used ProPolish for my left side glass windshield. They are good people with a system that seems to have some good effect. I’m not sure myself because the reason we used them was that when replacing the right plexi windshield with glass, removing the cockpit surround structure caused the existing left windshield to be delaminated due to adhesion between the metal structure and the outer layers of the glass. We sent the window to ProPolish and they autoclaved/repaired it. I occasionally see slight cloudiness at the periphery on very cold flights, but most of the time it looks normal and doesn’t seem to be getting worse with time (so far) over 4 years.

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