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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 01 Feb 2022, 20:14 
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I like a little tail wind now and again...


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 02 Feb 2022, 11:20 
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Non stop is out. I do like to push the envelope a bit but I have never broken my rule:

If I am watching the weather at destination then concern about fuel is not allowed.
Charlotte MOS calling for ceilings between 300-700ft.
I will be stopping for fuel somewhere along the route.

New goal...join the 500 knot club. From forecast I will likely top out around 480GS near Tennessee.

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 12 Feb 2022, 11:37 
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I always forget how pleasant flying this time of year can be. Barber pole riding at FL350 yesterday in cool temps.

Flew in a c441 earlier this week. Awesome plane however it really made me appreciate Piaggio noise levels. Using the same app, 441 at 91db and Piaggio at 73.5db in cockpit at same altitudes. Both are quieter at higher altitudes but a good head to head.

On the way home yesterday, vis dropped to half mile and 600ft ceilings when were 5 min from airport. Per the probe out the window we picked up at least 1” of ice. Saw the lights right as panel was barking minimums. With the ice I flew approach flaps mid at 140kts. Once I broke out I went to flight idle and managed to land just past touchdown markers with stall horn chirping. Turboprops are awesome!

Also, bought some Oakley glacier glasses for flying. The side shields really lower eye fatigue at altitude and they are not polarized so screens don’t look odd. They have a special snow reflective coating that I find makes low visibility cloudy conditions much clearer. Highly recommend though they don’t look as cool as aviators, especially when tilted to avoid headset ear cups !


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 12 Feb 2022, 12:43 
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Joined: 01/21/14
Posts: 5094
Post Likes: +3631
Company: FAA Flight Check
Location: Oklahoma City, OK (KOKC)
Aircraft: King Air 300F/C90GTx
I'll look into those glasses. The side shield will keep my fellow pilot from knowing whether I have my eyes closed :pilot:


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 12 Feb 2022, 14:00 
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Joined: 11/22/16
Posts: 65
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Location: Bedford, Massachusetts (KBED)
Aircraft: PC12
I took a sound level meter into a P180 Avanti and made some measurements at various altitudes. See

https://philip.greenspun.com/blog/2022/ ... surements/

(some of you may recognize the hero pilot :-))


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 12 Feb 2022, 19:54 
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Joined: 12/17/13
Posts: 6322
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Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
Username Protected wrote:
I always forget how pleasant flying this time of year can be. Barber pole riding at FL350 yesterday in cool temps.

Flew in a c441 earlier this week. Awesome plane however it really made me appreciate Piaggio noise levels. Using the same app, 441 at 91db and Piaggio at 73.5db in cockpit at same altitudes. Both are quieter at higher altitudes but a good head to head.

On the way home yesterday, vis dropped to half mile and 600ft ceilings when were 5 min from airport. Per the probe out the window we picked up at least 1” of ice. Saw the lights right as panel was barking minimums. With the ice I flew approach flaps mid at 140kts. Once I broke out I went to flight idle and managed to land just past touchdown markers with stall horn chirping. Turboprops are awesome!

Also, bought some Oakley glacier glasses for flying. The side shields really lower eye fatigue at altitude and they are not polarized so screens don’t look odd. They have a special snow reflective coating that I find makes low visibility cloudy conditions much clearer. Highly recommend though they don’t look as cool as aviators, especially when tilted to avoid headset ear cups !


Piaggio's go with beards! :thumbup:

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Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 12 Feb 2022, 23:25 
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Joined: 04/24/18
Posts: 727
Post Likes: +340
Location: NYC
Aircraft: ISP Eagle II SR22 g2
Username Protected wrote:
I always forget how pleasant flying this time of year can be. Barber pole riding at FL350 yesterday in cool temps.

Flew in a c441 earlier this week. Awesome plane however it really made me appreciate Piaggio noise levels. Using the same app, 441 at 91db and Piaggio at 73.5db in cockpit at same altitudes. Both are quieter at higher altitudes but a good head to head.

On the way home yesterday, vis dropped to half mile and 600ft ceilings when were 5 min from airport. Per the probe out the window we picked up at least 1” of ice. Saw the lights right as panel was barking minimums. With the ice I flew approach flaps mid at 140kts. Once I broke out I went to flight idle and managed to land just past touchdown markers with stall horn chirping. Turboprops are awesome!

Also, bought some Oakley glacier glasses for flying. The side shields really lower eye fatigue at altitude and they are not polarized so screens don’t look odd. They have a special snow reflective coating that I find makes low visibility cloudy conditions much clearer. Highly recommend though they don’t look as cool as aviators, especially when tilted to avoid headset ear cups !


Piaggio's go with beards! :thumbup:


Mustaches usually do…

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2022, 01:13 
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Joined: 01/12/10
Posts: 396
Post Likes: +768
Location: Dallas, Texas
Aircraft: Piaggio P180, TTx
Well I sold mine last year after 1 year of ownership. My thoughts for those thinking of one.

1. The airplane will do as advertised. Its a 370 knot 600 lb/hr rocket ship
2. Parts are NOT a problem. There are many aftermarket ones available and Piaggio will supply you some if you are willing to part with your first born.
3. The enviornmental systems are GREAT. If you live in the deep south and are worried about cooling on the ground? Dont be. Its crazy an Italian airplane solved this up font.
4. The airplane is NOT for a newbie pilot. Its busy, its quirky and it has a very high approach speed. This isn't your moms Citation 1SP.
5. If you like bringing family but want to not be WITH your family while flying its great! But esconced as you are up front *which is surprisingly comfortable, you are essentially relegated to being an aerial chauffeur .... there is the party in the back, and there is you up front completely isolated form it. Good or bad. Take your pick. Its def NOT a social airplane for the pilot.
6. It absolutely SUCKS above 370.... I know a lot of people will post pictures of themselves here at 400 and say WTF? but trust me as a owner of a II with great motors it's not a high altitude airplane. Above 6 degrees ISA its service ceiling with any kind of load is 350. You heard it hear first.
7. Its the coolest looking airplane on the ramp with the exception of the Duke *which I have always loved.

Mark


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2022, 10:50 
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Joined: 05/18/15
Posts: 15
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Location: Ames, Iowa
Aircraft: Citation Mustang
Anthony,

Turboprops are indeed awesome, or at least the Avanti is — and this is for someone coming out of a jet. Talk to me about your prop settings. I generally pull them back, but don’t really see an advantage except for noise. Do you generally fly at 2000?


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2022, 11:29 
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Joined: 09/02/09
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Company: OAA
Location: Oklahoma City - PWA/Calistoga KSTS
Aircraft: UMF3, UBF 2, P180 II
Username Protected wrote:
Well I sold mine last year after 1 year of ownership. My thoughts for those thinking of one.


6. It absolutely SUCKS above 370.... I know a lot of people will post pictures of themselves here at 400 and say WTF? but trust me as a owner of a II with great motors it's not a high altitude airplane. Above 6 degrees ISA its service ceiling with any kind of load is 350. You heard it hear first.

Mark


Mark,

I'd take exception to this one. I think it needs to be thought about in context. Yes, the airplane slows down as you get higher but it's not terrible. Yesterday at FL400 I was doing 355 at +7. BUT, I flew 1250NM nonstop into headwinds and landed with 550lbs. Do that in another turbo prop. Do that in most light jets. And the cabin was 6k. Do that in practically anything.

That's my milk run. If I could find something else that would do it better or faster for anything close to the same opex and capex I'd be on it.

The plane has its quirks as you point out but overall it outperforms anything else out there in its class.

_________________
Travel Air B4000, Waco UBF2,UMF3,YMF5, UPF7,YKS 6, Fairchild 24W, Cessna 120
Never enough!


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2022, 11:34 
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Joined: 09/02/09
Posts: 8415
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Company: OAA
Location: Oklahoma City - PWA/Calistoga KSTS
Aircraft: UMF3, UBF 2, P180 II
Username Protected wrote:
Anthony,

Turboprops are indeed awesome, or at least the Avanti is — and this is for someone coming out of a jet. Talk to me about your prop settings. I generally pull them back, but don’t really see an advantage except for noise. Do you generally fly at 2000?


Not Anthony (my name has no "h" in it :D ) but in my II I almost never pull them back. You get slightly better performance at 2,000 in terms of speed and endurance compared to 1,800. I used 1,800 on a trip to/from Phoenix a couple of weeks ago because the speed and range weren't an issue and it is slightly quieter in the back. I wanted to give the 4 pax in the back any excuse to talk more quietly as they were yucking it up so much back there that I almost wanted to go join them. Not quite those as I was getting to fly after all. Yesterday on a much longer flight I tried it for a few minutes and watched airspeed go down slightly and fuel on destination go down with it. So, back up to 2,000. It is still darned quiet in the back and easy to hold a conversation at normal voice tones.

_________________
Travel Air B4000, Waco UBF2,UMF3,YMF5, UPF7,YKS 6, Fairchild 24W, Cessna 120
Never enough!


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2022, 15:08 
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Joined: 01/22/11
Posts: 9
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Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti II
Username Protected wrote:
2. Parts are NOT a problem. There are many aftermarket ones available and Piaggio will supply you some if you are willing to part with your first born.
Mark


Some parts are not a problem, namely engine parts. But parts that have to be single sourced through Piaggio can be a big problem. I fly both Avanti II's and an EVO. The EVO has had issues with the A/C unit and there were problems getting replacement parts. On the II, we've had several cases of part supply problems. Components that should be stock on the shelf items have been very hard to get. We replaced our rudder trim actuator with new instead of OH'd. Within the year it failed - ok stuff happens. We couldn't get a replacement unit while our was out for repair. We eventually found one we could rent, but the repair took over 6 months. If we weren't able to find this rental unit, we would have been grounded.

We have the Parker steel brakes, which are great. They're a little over half worn now (still some time left), but we started looking for OH kits. We were told 60+ weeks. These kits can only be sourced through Piaggio and should be on the shelf ready to go. This is especially true if the new EVO's are coming stock with these brakes. I would love to think that parts aren't a problem, but in reality, if you need parts that are only available through Piaggio, it can be a problem. I'm hoping that a new Piaggio Aerospace owner will see that you can't sell new aircraft if you can't support the ones that are already out there. These are amazing aircraft that need and deserve to be supported.
Chris


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2022, 17:51 
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Joined: 12/30/15
Posts: 1697
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Location: Charlotte
Aircraft: Avanti-Citabria
Not arguing your point Chris.

However, In my case if Piaggio was not in bankruptcy and parts were readily available then my 2007 would be worth at least 4 mil and way out of my comfort zone. I am mentally planning to be grounded for a few months some time in the next 5-10 years, Worth it to me.
Hoping a very sound company buys them soon

Anthony,
Your I is faster than most II's including mine. I just returned from recurrent at Flight Safety and one 21 year veteran of Avanti's who first flew the 1 and now in a II said the slight extra power is just to haul the slightly heavier airplane and burn more fuel.

Now about my recurrent at Flight Safety.
I love that Simulator!
First day I was a bit dejected as I was sloppy. The 21 year veteran was very encouraging and said to be expected on first day.
Second day much better but still some aggravating shortcomings.
Flying a near perfect hand flown VOR approach down to minimums only to forget to hit go around button and miss the right turn at 900 ft.

Engine failure on takeoff I could not hold heading straight after multiply attempts.
Besides the fact my Twin Piston mantra reared it's ugly head on the first one and I shoved the throttle full forward. Then figured out I had the ball of my foot on bottom of rudder vs my heals. I could not push hard enough to keep it straight with just 93% torque.

No problem after that holding heading after putting my heals on bottom of petals.

Near the end I decided to subscribe to what Flight Safety calls full support.
I can schedule and go to Sim anytime for the next two years.
NO MORE sloppy for me.

Yesterday am instructor kinda shotgunned failure after failure. Some pre briefed and some not.

Took off from Reno with snow and 2 degrees.
In Sim you do not ever climb out of the ice until instructor is finished with you.
-30.....yep, still in heavy ice with one forward wing inop and opposite main wing inop.

NEVER turn overheated forward wing back on BTW.

Another Hint: She will not climb with main wing anti-ice failure at 22,000 feet on one engine.

Then on to airspeed failure on left PDF followed by multiple different computer failures, sudden full loss of pressurization followed by a near miss despite the fact I squawked 7700 and hit Ident on way down then have elevator jam after leveling off at 10,000 feet.
PHUN PHUN

Yesterday was the best video game ever....except it was not just a game.

Leaving Napa back in November I had a heading miscompare and could not figure out which one was correct and remember steps to fix it. Thankfully I was VMC and it corrected itself in a few minutes. Now I know how to fix it quickly.

I hear there are only 213 Avanti flying in the world and yet we have available a Level 4 Sim and
4 VERY qualified instructors who's full time job is teaching Avanti.

I am headed back down for two more sim sessions in six weeks.

Wife's first trip to Palm Beach. She volunteered to go back any time I wanted ;)

_________________
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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2022, 12:49 
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Joined: 03/03/11
Posts: 1845
Post Likes: +1819
Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
Great PIREP Brad. I enjoyed Flightsatety as well. Didn’t recall the full support option. What did that cost? I signed up for next few years. We should plan next January for a BT Piaggio training party.

My Avanti seems fast, while I attribute to pilot skill(green), it’s probably bc it’s lightweight post panel install and the fact I always fly light. I also have been ruthless on touching up and polishing leading edges and nose. It makes a difference on this plane more than any other I have flown. I also believe the early I’s have a few less things hanging in the breeze. Specially the intake for enviro system. That thing has to be worth 5kts.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2022, 17:04 
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Joined: 08/31/17
Posts: 1589
Post Likes: +623
Aircraft: C180
Username Protected wrote:
Well I sold mine last year after 1 year of ownership. My thoughts for those thinking of one.

1. The airplane will do as advertised. Its a 370 knot 600 lb/hr rocket ship
2. Parts are NOT a problem. There are many aftermarket ones available and Piaggio will supply you some if you are willing to part with your first born.
3. The enviornmental systems are GREAT. If you live in the deep south and are worried about cooling on the ground? Dont be. Its crazy an Italian airplane solved this up font.
4. The airplane is NOT for a newbie pilot. Its busy, its quirky and it has a very high approach speed. This isn't your moms Citation 1SP.
5. If you like bringing family but want to not be WITH your family while flying its great! But esconced as you are up front *which is surprisingly comfortable, you are essentially relegated to being an aerial chauffeur .... there is the party in the back, and there is you up front completely isolated form it. Good or bad. Take your pick. Its def NOT a social airplane for the pilot.
6. It absolutely SUCKS above 370.... I know a lot of people will post pictures of themselves here at 400 and say WTF? but trust me as a owner of a II with great motors it's not a high altitude airplane. Above 6 degrees ISA its service ceiling with any kind of load is 350. You heard it hear first.
7. Its the coolest looking airplane on the ramp with the exception of the Duke *which I have always loved.

Mark



What are you flying now?


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