Username Protected wrote:
So, there's now been a pretty good board accumulation of flying hours and daily use so that we could perhaps start to see a truer operational cost profile?
Has the Avanti been the money pit everyone suggested or is it more inline with the expectations you had? What are the summary experiences from operators here?
Adam,
I've been ignoring your question because I don't have a full year operating yet. But then, another member,
who I thought was my friend, sent me a PM asking for details. I thought I might as well copy my answer here:
It takes a year or more to really figure out what things are going to cost. And in a turbine it also depends on where you are at in the various multi year cycles as you know. As to insurance it's highly variable on time in type as well as limits. So, I can't give you an hourly figure but I'll share some expenses from memory to see if that helps.
Background: my plane is 12 years old (lots of overhauls due), just over 1,000 hours TTAF (low time = less things break), I had 17 hours multi when I bought it, no initial training and zero time in type (high insurance cost). Most of my trips are 1,000 to 1,250 NM and I make the west bound with one stop about 2/3rds of time (that may go up as my experience in warmer weather doesn't experience cold yet) and I always make it nonstop going east. So, long legs lower ops cost. YMMV.
Finally, costs vary a lot by how you operate. Some tolerate things I won't. I figure it doesn't get cheaper to fix later. I'm anal. I have a good shop on the field. So, other's experience may be different.
When I purchased the former owner had not been flying much or keeping up with maintenance. There were missing corrosion inspections, electrical malfunctions, toilet cracked, squibs to OH, masks to OH, and inspections with related repairs, etc etc(about 20 pages of discepancies) that cost about 100k to catch up and the owner couldn't afford so I paid for them and reduced purchase price. ADSB had been done but it didn't have LPV, which I wanted, which cost $75,000.
That gets us started.
Insurance for $5mm smooth was $25k.
Avionics full warranty coverage is $18k. I'll probably take lower coverage next year.
Avionics subscriptions run about $15k but I have charts which most don't, I have XM weather which most don't.
I own my own hangar at a $200k cap cost but am in a hangar community with $575/month dues.
Currently doing 12 year gear OH which will be about $275k all in. I knew this going in and purchase price reflected it at nearly dollar for dollar. Part 91 you can skip but it affects purchase price obviously.
Prop OH's were done 2 years ago and they're $6k each.
My primary pitch trim actuators are due for OH but I still don't have cost on that as no OH'd parts are available so I'm on extension. There was some related inspection expense which has been done and will be about $2,500 when I get the bill.
I had some other misc 12 year items, 3,6 and 12 month items done about 6 weeks ago for $12,800.
I just had it in the shop to check hydraulic filter because, though I RTFM I didn't read the right FM carefully. That'll cost a couple grand for no good reason but I do now have $2,700 worth of brand new jacking points. But I digress...
I'm budgeting about $50k for this year's annual event due in September based on status of A,B,C,D checks, etc. based on discussions with shop.
Which brings me to the point that annual maintenance is highly variable based on utilization and where you are on the hourly cycle and which checks are due. My best advice here is to have a conversation with a knowledgeable shop like ICJS and learn the labor hours, average parts cost, etc for these. Every turbine should be on tracking and with that the shop should be able to project your annual expenses on a given airframe pretty well.
I've flown plane about 125-130 hours since getting out of the shop last October. I'll end the operating year, this year, around 180 hours I think. Hopefully more next year as things are opening up.
Oh, FlightSafety is $13,800 for recurrent plus travel expenses and I've done about $6k worth of in aircraft initial training if you just count instructors and fuel bills.
And, don't forget HSI's at 1750 hours for say $30k each or $35 per hour. And OH's at 3,500 hours and $400k each.
I've had some fod damage to one prop blade, 2 compressor blades and a tire ($1,480 plus labor for that tire) from my home airport's allowing a 100,000 pound aircraft to operate on my 80,000 taxiway
. That's only cost about $5k all in (and they are repairing the taxiway).
As an aside: brakes and tires aren't cheap. Someone opined it's about $35 per landing for those. I see the P180 as a biplane and as I've said elsewhere biplane brakes are only for holding for runup. Seriously, you don't have to use brakes hardly at all if you aren't on short runways and use Beta judiciously. My guess is pro pilots who aren't paying the bills don't do that and actual brake cost per landing can be less. We'll see...
Also, I have flown all over the country with fuel prices from $3 to $6 a gallon and variable ramp and parking fees. I've parked the airplane on ramps for about 4 or 5 weeks so far.
I have no idea what the hourly costs are yet. When I've had it a full year I'll have my accountant run reports which I'll then analyze for what costs are taking into account the 6 and 12 year items, etc.
I've made one leg at 40k and have no doubt it'll go up another thousand feet. I usually fly at 35-36 but sometimes go up to 37-38. The plane climbs very well, to low thirties depending on temp and then the last few thousand are a few hundred to 500 fpm. I am usually about 11,500ish on take off for that.
So, all in I think I'm around $1700/hour plus airplane cap costs and depreciation. Add about $900/hour for those things based on purchase price and 5% annual depreciation (though I actually think I've experienced $0 in depreciation and actually have gained value in the current year - but that won't last forever).