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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2021, 06:52 
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Joined: 12/30/15
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Location: Charlotte
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I guess there standards have lowered Adam. I don't have CPL...yet

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2021, 09:39 
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Here is flight safety cost
One Time – Single Event

$20,400 – Piaggio Avanti II Initial

$12,750 – Piaggio Avanti II Recurrent



13 Month Agreement* – Provides two One Time training events to the same pilot anytime over the 13 month agreement period.

$28,275 - Piaggio Avanti II Initial – 2021 / Piaggio Avanti II Recurrent – 2022

$20,250 - Piaggio Avanti II Recurrent – 2021 / Piaggio Avanti II Recurrent – 2022


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2021, 09:40 
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Does anyone have a trainer that does the avanti 1 with garmin?


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2021, 09:41 
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Joined: 12/17/13
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Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
How often does your insurance require recurrent?

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2021, 09:54 
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Joined: 09/02/09
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Company: OAA
Location: Oklahoma City - PWA/Calistoga KSTS
Aircraft: UMF3, UBF 2, P180 II
Username Protected wrote:
They refused me back in the days when I had money to spare, as I didn't have a CPL. Kinda pissed me off a little, as it made them feel like 135 shills and "if you're not a charter pilot, you're not welcome", but I get it. They're trying to keep a certain standard. SimCom doesn't care, so that's where I went for the Turbo Commander training.


That's an interesting requirement as the CP training regime is almost entirely about VFR flight maneuvers and sim school is almost entirely about IFR flying, systems and emergencies. With that said CP training is fun and teaches you a lot more about aircraft/pilot performance and the flight envelope.

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Travel Air B4000, Waco UBF2,UMF3,YMF5, UPF7,YKS 6, Fairchild 24W, Cessna 120
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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2021, 10:00 
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Joined: 06/06/12
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Company: FlightRepublic
Location: Bee Cave, TX
Aircraft: DA40, C182
Username Protected wrote:
phun begins tomorrow
Simulator...Will be my first sim experience
Charlotte to Palm Beach Florida this afternoon.
Would not have been a good day in the low/mid 20's in Aerostar
Still had this little kiss of ice on engine boots after finally breaking out at FL360

It’s a beautiful airplane. I love that detail. :thumbup:

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contactlink.to/antoni.deighton


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2021, 10:07 
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Username Protected wrote:

That's an interesting requirement as the CP training regime is almost entirely about VFR flight maneuvers and sim school is almost entirely about IFR flying, systems and emergencies. With that said CP training is fun and teaches you a lot more about aircraft/pilot performance and the flight envelope.


CPL is first on my list when world recovers. :thumbup:

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2021, 14:55 
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Joined: 04/24/18
Posts: 727
Post Likes: +340
Location: NYC
Aircraft: ISP Eagle II SR22 g2
Holy cow what a thread!
(The airplane ain't bad either..)
Trying to feel good about my Eagle II purchase in December. :crazy:
You guys are making me pheel™ bad!
Eagle deets are cruise is 360-375. Fl430. Climbs to 430 in 30 min. Easy 1500nm range no wind with reserves. Less cap ex (I think). Jet. Relatively predictable opex with tapblue. Easy 4k runway dry. 6-8k if contaminated. Needs type rating. Much smaller cabin. Flushing potty is something to avoid using. Plenty parts available. No gear OH requirements. Not nearly as cool as a p180.
I guess we'll call it a wash! :thumbup:
Sorry for the (kinda) off topic post.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2021, 17:39 
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Joined: 04/20/15
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Username Protected wrote:

CPL is first on my list when world recovers. :thumbup:


It's fun and enjoyable, but totally not applicable to normal trips. Just another hoop to jump through. Go knock it out.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2021, 18:33 
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Username Protected wrote:

CPL is first on my list when world recovers. :thumbup:


It's fun and enjoyable, but totally not applicable to normal trips. Just another hoop to jump through. Go knock it out.

Friend did his VFR CPL check ride in a T-6, 1990s. DPE would've needed a nine iron to wack him. Figured the GIB sight picture over the wing and from the back was distorted so he'd pass easier. Must've worked.
He got it VFR only as the warbird flying Insurance wanted that box checked off, and he got to race at Reno a couple times. He wasn't going to fly IFR anyway.
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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2021, 21:38 
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Joined: 09/11/09
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Location: Tulsa, Ok
Aircraft: Baron/Bonanza
I got my CPL in 1994......I have yet to perform a chandelle since my check ride...... :shrug:

It was a fun rating, though.

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 21 Feb 2021, 08:12 
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Joined: 12/30/15
Posts: 1697
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Location: Charlotte
Aircraft: Avanti-Citabria
Back home from Flight Safety yesterday

My hand flying instrument skills needed more practice prior to Flight Safety.
I had planned on sharpening up in Aerostar but she sold too quick
My TLAR procedure turn in a hand flown VOR approach was flat out rejected as was
my chopping power on a circle to land (minimums at night) to make runway.
My Collins Proline 21 proficiency is still a little ways off...coming along

Flight Safety trains corporate and airline pilots to proficiency. Anything but precision and adherence to SOPs is frowned upon...as it should be.
I needed a slight attitude adjustment and an extra sim session Friday afternoon

I PASSED “continuous somersault emoji”

I never crashed...thanks to my dance partner- Citabria
and prior training in Aerostar

Having an instructor fail engine just after rotation and going from barely not crashing to
proficiency is HUGELY REWARDING AND WORTH EVERY PENNY.

My biggest challenge on take off failures was learning to NOT TOUCH THROTTLES.
Too much power in good engine can not be overcome by rudder.

Very grateful for my 30,000+ hour pilot friend who went to Flight Safety with me and coached, kicked and force fed me information pretty much non stop since purchase.
This friend is still as giddy about flying as any of us plus he is SMOOTH beyond imagination. He says this airplane flies like a Lear jet with a less power.

To watch him in sim session slowly and methodically dealing with every failure they could throw at him
helped me slow down and think much better.

Smooth is slow....slow is fast

He is now Flight Safety approved and available as a mentor pilot.
Send PM on contact if desired.

FL330 at 376-380 knots coming home yesterday

A wee bit excited

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 21 Feb 2021, 09:48 
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Joined: 07/24/14
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Username Protected wrote:
Back home from Flight Safety yesterday...

I PASSED “continuous somersault emoji”

Smooth is slow....slow is fast

Congrats, Brad! :clap:
I’m just a little bit jealous. ;)

What did you mean by the last sentence I quoted above?

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 21 Feb 2021, 11:23 
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Location: Charlotte
Aircraft: Avanti-Citabria
Dangnabit,

I said it wrong,

“Slow is smooth....smooth is fast”

Not so good with words but will try and elaborate.

In piston twin we have to react kinda fast on the fear of (thankfully incredibly rare) engine failure on take off.
For these last 3 years in Aerostar I have tried to drill Doug R’s mantra in me small brain:

Mixture, Prop, throttle full forward..etc...etc.

I had the gift of being in the sim with a truly dedicated pro.
What I noticed with amazement is how he was SLOW to react on almost every emergency item other than engine failure on rotation or catastrophic depressurization.


“Hmm, we have a red light, wonder what happened.
Let’s grab the book...

Oh, flight attendant would you get me a coffee please...one cream, no sugar.

Now,
We have a:

Bleed air issue
Engine failure
Pressure issue
Fuel pressure issue”. ..and so on

Other than engine failure on rotation or cat depress. NOTHING needs to be done fast.

Engine failure at altitude we slowly went from 225 indicated to 180 indicated
touch NOTHING!!!

Grab the book, do the steps, have a sip of coffee.
Divert to nearest suitable airport if needed.

It was eye opening...and we laughed at my silly self.

First door seal light I got I quickly looked at pressure gauge and quickly determined wrongly that cabin pressure was at 25,000.

Silly boy, that was the small needle pointing to cabin diff still at 9.0

So I quickly put on mask and quickly started emergency decent down.

Just one door seal point, no big deal.
What’s the book say....in an abundance of caution calmly descend down to FL300 or lower
Just in case a pressure issue develops.

Did you notice the number of quicklies?...is that a word?

Did I mention we laughed at my silly self

Slow is smooth...smooth is fast

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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 21 Feb 2021, 14:34 
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Joined: 05/18/15
Posts: 15
Post Likes: +18
Location: Ames, Iowa
Aircraft: Citation Mustang
Congrats Brad -- due to all the great info and contributors to this thread, I've decided to join the party and upgrade my Citation Mustang to a Piaggio Avanti. I just put a 2002 Avanti I under contract late last week. Hopefully we'll make it successfully through pre-buy and I'll join the ownership club. The market is pretty tight, so thanks to Bryon Mobley for all his efforts and expertise. I have a few questions for all the Piaggio owners on this thread.

Training and Insurance -- I'll probably get my insurance quote back next week. For the new owners --was FSI required or did you get other choices? If you did FSI, would you do it again? Since I'm completely upgrading the avionics, I'll not sure how much a PL21 sim will help? I've done FSI a couple of times in the Mustang, it's expensive, long and regimented, but otherwise very good.

Upgrades -- My plan is to get essentially a new airplane. I'm scheduled for the full Gamin upgrade (G600Txi's + GTN750Xi's) at Intercontinental, then I'll get a brand new interior and paint. Any advice on the paint and interior? Any shops you would recommend?

Tug -- I have hangers in both Iowa and Wyoming and realize I have no way to get that wide nosewheel onto my tug and into my hanger. Thinking about getting a couple of Best Tugs with the double wide nosewheel holder. For those that have these, do you ever use the GPU function?

Other-- Although I'm not new to turbine ownership, this will be the first turboprop I have flown/owned. Any advice or prep I can do while I wait for the airplane?

As you can imagine, I've compared the Piaggio extensively to the Mustang. I really like the Mustang, so this was a difficult decision for me. The biggest advantage for me is cabin size and noise. My normal milk run in the Mustang is 4-6 people from Iowa to Wyoming (700nm). With 6 people/bags with winter winds this trip is really tight in the Mustang. It appears that I could take this trip with up to 10 in the Piaggio pretty easily.

The Piaggio is a bit faster (30-40) knots, holds just a bit more fuel (20 gal.) and is a bit more fuel efficient, so I expect the range to be better. Also the real bathroom is an add.

In terms of costs, the initial capital (all in 1.5M) is similar and I hope the ongoing costs (I use $1,000/hour in the Mustang) and reliability will be similar. Time will tell.


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