BeechTalk - BT - The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 04 Feb 2021, 22:22

Username Protected wrote:

As one of the aforementioned brokers, (who has spoken with some of you) I get asked about P180 range all the time. My answer is always the same. It is a SOLID 1000 mile “regional” airplane, but you can stretch it out depending on conditions and load. So based on Tony’s real world example, I’m not too far off.... I would rather under promise slightly, and have a buyer pleased rather than pissed off when he can’t do it after he bought it. If that makes me stupid, guilty as charged!

Hey Bryon, I heard through the grapevine that Chip McClure is refocusing his whole business strictly on Piaggio’s, foregoing his beloved King Airs and Citations from now on......did you hear that?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 04 Feb 2021, 22:30

WHAT IS THIS KRAP ABOUT SPEED LIMITS :pullhair:

Fer all these years whenever I pass a fast car I point and smile and say...see that car...big phat tease. All those horses and nowhere to run.

I, however, can take her above 10,000 feet and free the reigns

oh boy...she loves to be phree

Flew 79 whole miles over to GSP today to go train with Cameron. :cheers:

Below Charlotte Bravo over half the way then only up to 6k...briefly.
Training: approaches to GSP and GMU...guud stuff but all with speed limitz...which I busted twice r once

Coming back I Just could not do that to her.

So I went up to 13,500 over bravo for one landing at AFP then back home

313@ 13.5 without pushing limitz

T minus 4 dayz til skool

a weeR bit excited

Username Protected · **Posted:** 04 Feb 2021, 23:36

Penman probably prefers proper penmanship. :shrug:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 05 Feb 2021, 02:10

Todd- I talked to Chip a few weeks ago and I think he mentioned an off market SN that we’d already looked at for a client. As far as I know, he hasn’t changed his focus. Not to mention, if he did, he’d starve to death. There aren’t enough P180s built to allow you to work exclusively with them.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 05 Feb 2021, 08:04

Username Protected wrote:

As one of the aforementioned brokers, (who has spoken with some of you) I get asked about P180 range all the time. My answer is always the same. It is a SOLID 1000 mile “regional” airplane, but you can stretch it out depending on conditions and load. So based on Tony’s real world example, I’m not too far off.... I would rather under promise slightly, and have a buyer pleased rather than pissed off when he can’t do it after he bought it. If that makes me stupid, guilty as charged!

Hey Bryon,

I was not referring to you! You are one of the guys who does know the plane, and very well. But you’ll have to admit I’m not wrong about most...

Username Protected · **Posted:** 05 Feb 2021, 11:19

Flew home yesterday from Charleston to Dallas Addison,,, 900 nautical. Barely made it with 620 lbs reserve (my personal minimum is 600 lbs).

Of course the 125 knot headwind didn't help lol.

Once concern of mine is that it seems to be slower than most other Piaggio out there. At 380, zero ISA and temps at 810 degrees all I can seem to get out of her was 350 knots. 20 knots slow..

On the way out I checked my speed against the book and found a 15 knot difference ...

Hmmm.

Airplane is new paint and clean as a whistle but has the polished leading edges and there is a tiny ridge perceptible when you run your finger over it....I dont think that will cause a 20 knot speed reduction but who knows?

Wonder if my engines at 3300 TT have anything to do with it? 300 more hours until new ones. cant wait (yes I am on a program lol).

Username Protected · **Posted:** 05 Feb 2021, 11:34

Thanks Tony, I appreciate that. You are correct. I have had a few encounters with the “South Florida” Broker crowd over the years. Generally, big talk, no experience. Cheap fees.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 05 Feb 2021, 11:39

Mark, I had a conversation recently with Piaggio about the polished leading edge SB. If you read the bulletin, it is very specific about filling the gap behind the leading edge cuff. I know yours didn’t have polished edges to begin with, did the paint shop perform the bulletin, or just not paint the leading edges? I still would find more than a 3-5 KT difference hard to believe. Piaggio engineers resisted allowing the leading edges to be polished for years citing performance degradation.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 05 Feb 2021, 12:41

Username Protected wrote:

Todd- I talked to Chip a few weeks ago and I think he mentioned an off market SN that we’d already looked at for a client. As far as I know, he hasn’t changed his focus. Not to mention, if he did, he’d starve to death. There aren’t enough P180s built to allow you to work exclusively with them.

Yep! Just Todd and I ganging up to razz you! I told Riner to walk into your office and tell you the same thing! I am glad that someone who knows the airplane and is honest is doing Piaggio acquisitions! Anyone that calls us, I am referring to you!

Tell Jim you and I have a bilateral agreement and you're going to send all the King Airs to us! :coffee:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 05 Feb 2021, 12:50

Username Protected wrote:

Awesome Brad! Great day for flying... Flew back from Charleston today at FL380...363 knots on 580 lbs hr. Beautiful day.

What has changed from your previous trip... 13 knots faster Mark?

When I had my leading edge repainted on Columbia 350 at Richmond Jet Center they used a leading edge tape that might have been 3 mils thicker. I lost 3 knots as in 170 down to 167.

A year later I had them remove my leading edge protective tape...got all my speed back plus 1-2.

A year later I paid them 6K...ouch, to repaint my now eroded leading edge and find a thinner leading edge tape.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 05 Feb 2021, 14:15

So engine question, how hot do you run ITT on those engines. Looks pretty high to me?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 05 Feb 2021, 17:35

Username Protected wrote:

Awesome Brad! Great day for flying... Flew back from Charleston today at FL380...363 knots on 580 lbs hr. Beautiful day.

What has changed from your previous trip... 13 knots faster Mark?

When I had my leading edge repainted on Columbia 350 at Richmond Jet Center they used a leading edge tape that might have been 3 mils thicker. I lost 3 knots as in 170 down to 167.

A year later I had them remove my leading edge protective tape...got all my speed back plus 1-2.

A year later I paid them 6K...ouch, to repaint my now eroded leading edge and find a thinner leading edge tape.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 05 Feb 2021, 17:40

Username Protected wrote:

So engine question, how hot do you run ITT on those engines. Looks pretty high to me?

800 - 810 for me.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 05 Feb 2021, 17:42

Username Protected wrote:

Mark, I had a conversation recently with Piaggio about the polished leading edge SB. If you read the bulletin, it is very specific about filling the gap behind the leading edge cuff. I know yours didn’t have polished edges to begin with, did the paint shop perform the bulletin, or just not paint the leading edges? I still would find more than a 3-5 KT difference hard to believe. Piaggio engineers resisted allowing the leading edges to be polished for years citing performance degradation.

I can feel a ridge behind the leading edge but it is VERY small. About the half thickness of aircraft .034 aluminum maybe or even less. I cant believe this could cost me 10 - 20 knots.

I suspect my engines are down on power being this close to overhaul.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 05 Feb 2021, 18:08

My opinion is next to worthless....99% wing.... .1% power

1450 shaft horsepower engines derated to 850.
Made to fly 8,000 hours...Pratt gets to be Pratt

I got in the tiniest coating of ice on my Columbia 350 more than once.
Lost 8-10 knots airspeed then slowly watched airspeed climb back up as ice sublimated.

Clean wing on Avanti is more important than other airplanes for speed.

School for next two weeks then I need more training flights.
I'll meet you in CHS to compare wings ( I also have polished leading edges) then follow you 1/4 way back to Dallas at same FL for speed comparison